Progress: Part Doux

[Elphaba]

:chinese: Motors back for the machine shop! Keith was going to give it a once over to check the work last night! Looks like things might start moving again. I know Keith is anxious to get that damn Miata out of his shop! Its been there pritty much full time; gathering dust and getting in the way, sence last Feburary when we discovered the ring problem in the original motor.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I didn't get to stop yesterday. Had to rush home and give the 05 away. :) Sorry.

[Elphaba]

:excl: You sold it???

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I do believe. I will know for sure in an hour or so. Couple out of Tucson. He is getting the best 2005 Mazda ever built. It really runs sweet.

[magnamx-5]

Damn tom I hope that couple apreciates the sale GL man :D

[Elphaba]

:sweatdrop: Tom Im out of town for the next week. Last I checked with keith he still hadnt checked over the motor. I cant seem to get hold of him. If your in the area would you mind stopping by and posting back whats what? Thanks

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I was there Thursday. Keith has everything measured for fit except the crank end of the rods. I think he should have it together this week? fter that, you need to take it and give it a bath :) and drive it for 500-1000 miles. First 500, vary RPM as you drive. After that, get some rev limiter runs and break it in well. Then we'll do an oil change and get back to business.

[magnamx-5]

Updates??:cheers2: :yinyang: :rockon:

[Elphaba]

Didnt make it Saturday Their closed on Sun/Mon. Will check and update tomarrow.:sweatdrop: :sweatdrop:

[magnamx-5]

I have faith Dan GL.

[Elphaba]

Never actually saw the motor. Keith was buisy with a coustomer on the dyno but he said the motor was almost done. whaterver that means.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I saw the motor about 10:00AM and it is basically complete. I picked up your supercharger and am installing production brackets. I will have it back to them Monday and I would guess they will be real close to droping it on by then.

[magnamx-5]

So Elepha how is the car running? :gun_bandana: :flowers: :gunsmilie: :hammer:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

it was 99% back together when I saw it at 1:00. It was either running today or will be tomorrow.

[Elphaba]

:yawn: SNORT! Snnnaugh... Cough. Who woke me up? Somebody say something?:yawn:

[Elphaba]

:confused: How the heck does a keyway get broken on a cam? Stopped by ADC this afternoon, motor is in but they are having issues with the exhaust cam. Also my 4 month old battery apperes to be toast:mad: wont hold a charge. Ive got a serious dark current problem somewhere. "Should" be ready to pick up Saturday. Just in time for the 2" or so of rain were suposed to get. POOP. I cant get a break. :svengo:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The JDM engine from hell.

[Elphaba]

Remind me again why I signed up for this project? I remember something about hoursepower. and being the first to have an MP-62 on a 1.6, but Im not sure any more. OH YAH!!! I remember now! This was all because I shamed TOM into giving love to the 1.6... SOOOOO. That makes it all MY fault... CRAP. I suck... How much for a new exhaust cam?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ben says that if you had used a MegaSquirt, that cam wouldn't have broken.

[magnamx-5]

I believe he would say something like that dude you have some serius bad Karma there you need to fenshua your ride before it really messes with you. GL man:gunsmilie:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Dan could give all the details but this JDM engine has really been the engine from hell. Wrong pulleys, wrong cams, wrong lifters, etc. I recommend anyone looking to replace their engine with a JDM, think hard before proceding.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Damn!!!!!!

[Elphaba]

:no: If I could rename this thread Id call it "the reverse of progress". Found out what caused the exhaust cam to spin a bearing and snap the keyway. They ran the motor for over 2 min with the remote oil filter hoses reversed. Check valve works just fine that way, with the result of NO oil pressure... Guess they were too buisy to check a little thing like that. Keith is being VERY up front about this disaster taking full responsability for the screw up and he will pay for the damage. Problem is its another delay in a project that has been happening for a full 11 months now. Toms post above says it all. "DAMN" Heres the "good" news. They pulled the motor and stripped it down. Pulled the oil pan while I waited and checked the bores and all the main and rod beirings. All is well from looking at the bottem end:grouphug: The head is next to come off and that will tell the tale of the top end of the bores. As far as the head goes were looking at either a cam journal repair and a new exhaust cam OR a new head and a valve job for the oversized FM exhaust valves. We didnt dodge the bullet; but at least its only a flesh wound... Magnum: My karma is fine, Its the CARS karma that bites... And just how the hell do you fing shewi a car??:confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just for the record, Feng Shui.

I can spell it, I just don't have it. ;(

[Elphaba]

:biggrin: mis-spelled on purpose:biggrin: Unlike most of my other typos...

[magnamx-5]

IDK man but that realy sucks, IF this hadn't been going on for almost a year i would almost laugh at it. These guys are suposed to be Pros right? Well this just shows that everyone @##$% up and that some just accel at @#$$$%%ING up on miatas. At least they manned up to it. If i where you i would source a ebay head or even i have dibs on a head for a 1.6 from begi's used stuff for cheap all i realy want is the manifold if i get the head before you get your stuff in i will ship it to you and then you can recoup abit of cost from the shop maybe say it cost you 100$ or something I dunno. It is the least i can do to help.

[Elphaba]

Just stopped by ADC. Keith has the head at a shop in the same complex as him that says they can do the repair of the cam journal and the car MIGHT be back togather and running on Thursday... Guess which day I leave for Havascrew for a week... You guessed it...:censored: TOM if you want you could put a few miles on here while Im out of town. Tag expired Nov 30th but I think their is a months grace period.?.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Last I saw "Excuse me officer!" :( there is no 'grace' period. It is older than 10 years, are they down to $25/year? Could you get the new stickers?

On the other hand, I am not crazy about driving somebody elses car especially with the engine from hell.

Just stopped by ADC. Keith has the head at a shop in the same complex as him that says they can do the repair of the cam journal and the car MIGHT be back togather and running on Thursday... Guess which day I leave for Havascrew for a week... You guessed it...:censored: TOM if you want you could put a few miles on here while Im out of town. Tag expired Nov 30th but I think their is a months grace period.?.

[magnamx-5]

Last I saw "Excuse me officer!" :( there is no 'grace' period. It is older than 10 years, are they down to $25/year? Could you get the new stickers?

On the other hand, I am not crazy about driving somebody elses car especially with the engine from hell.

Yeah knowing your luck you would pop a piston on it. Maybe just some warm up dyno laps etc :rofl: No worrys Dan when you get to the car it will be cool enough outside to enjoy it thoroughly and not sweat your ass off. Or you could just stay behind and have your car :p

[magnamx-5]

Thursday is comming man GL

[Elphaba]

:ninja: I just saw the damdst thing...3 guys trying to force a 1.6 motor into a Miata. You'd think it was a 351C... We had a scare that I kept quiet about last week. Seems Keith thought some of the FM oversized exhaust valves were bent some how. WELL.. There fine; and the motor is back in the car. Not running; but at least its in the same building... Hoping to have it under its own power this week. Then Im gonna need that timing card Tom... After all this BS. Im Going for broke!!! Wheres that 110mm pulley??? Fu** It! I got nothin left to loose. I want a torque curve that starts at 195 ft,lbs and ends at 200ft, lbs and looks like a fender washer viewed edge on...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just remember, no supercharger belt until it is broken in and we get it back on the dyno and re-test.

[magnamx-5]

GL man, I am awaiting your numbers :gun_bandana: :osama:

[Elphaba]

:elf: Motor is back in car. Motor runs like shyte. Were thingking that when Keith went to replace the broken exhaust cam he used one that just happend to be laying around.. :svengo: That most likley is the cam from the JDM solid lifter head which ran like a motor from an automatic econobox. At least it has oil pressure this time. Delay of play for a proper cam.:censored:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It runs once again and, according to Keith, runs very well. Pictures tomorrow.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it turned out to run bad after a short time. That turned out to be a bad connection on a plug wire. That is fixed and it now runs awesome BUT Dan will be away for a few days an unable to put miles on it. Anyhow, it runs and runs well. After 500 or so mikes, we will re-install the belt and go for the gold.

[Elphaba]

:mad: They closed my base because the aircraft has to go in for 3-4 days of maintance...:biggrin: I get to put miles on the car instead:driving: Drove back from Havasu last night. Will post up how it goes.

[Elphaba]

:biggrin: 200 miles down... 300 to go!!!:biggrin: No problems yet besides that stupid starter issue thats been going on sence motor #2:boxing_smiley:

[magnamx-5]

woohoo keep the news comming Dan :D

[Elphaba]

:toetap05: The Holidays work and my visiting mother have taken their toll. I hope to put some more miles on her today and tomarrow.

[jse]

Wow...sounds like quite a mission. I'm wanting to run an MP62 on my car.

I'm from downunder and run a 1.6L at the moment. Wondering if a kit will be realised soon for the 1.6L or if there is one and I can't find it?

Any more progress with yours?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It will be released as soon as we test his car. Hopefully this coming week.

[magnamx-5]

Wow...sounds like quite a mission. I'm wanting to run an MP62 on my car.

I'm from downunder and run a 1.6L at the moment. Wondering if a kit will be realised soon for the 1.6L or if there is one and I can't find it?

Any more progress with yours?

While you wait i suggest you read up on the install/tunning of varius FI devices on our miatas. This will help you to have alot happier boost expereince and allow you to get the most out of what Tom sends you. :D

[Elphaba]

:driving: Took a big chance and drove her to Havasu last night; the car now has 650 miles on her with an oil change at 400... Running great except for the annoying starter problem. Mike will address that in about a week. The car now has about 650 miles on the newest motor and will have another 250 or so by the time Im home. :driving:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Let me know when you are ready for the belt to go back on. :)

[magnamx-5]

Im ready :2guns: :driving: :rofl:

[Elphaba]

:driving: 905.7 miles on the latest motor! Time for another oil change. Also: I called Mike on the way back from Havasu. He had an opening for today and he fixed my starter problem. Youll never guess what the problem was... :sweatdrop: It was the STARTER!! :rofl: Newer one in place= no more problems!!! Unfortunatly Im bound up for about a week with work and other issues. TOM; Ill call ya tomarrow or the next day to set up a time for putting the belt back on and straping her to the dyno. Ill want to pay for an new leakdown and CR check before we start any hyjinks:biggrin: AND I want to be present for any dyno pulls just as a "Knock detector" Test Monkey ready and out!!!

[Elphaba]

jse: I think Tom has documeted left had drive blowers of his now living in Aurtralia. Their upside down but they still work. Not sure what the differences are between 1.8 and 1.6 varients but, with a bigger hammer you can always make it fit:hammer:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

After my starter problems and the battle that ensued, I am of the opinion that aftermarket or rebuilt starters don't work in a Miata. Buy factory replacement only.

I can'r wait to get it back on the dyno.

:driving: 905.7 miles on the latest motor! Time for another oil change. Also: I called Mike on the way back from Havasu. He had an opening for today and he fixed my starter problem. Youll never guess what the problem was... :sweatdrop: It was the STARTER!! :rofl: Newer one in place= no more problems!!! Unfortunatly Im bound up for about a week with work and other issues. TOM; Ill call ya tomarrow or the next day to set up a time for putting the belt back on and straping her to the dyno. Ill want to pay for an new leakdown and CR check before we start any hyjinks:biggrin: AND I want to be present for any dyno pulls just as a "Knock detector" Test Monkey ready and out!!!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. It lasted about 130,000 miles and then I was having starting issues. I took it to a local shop down here and asked them to replace it. They installed a rebuilt one and I took of in June to Cleveland. Along the way, there were several instances where it would simply click and not crank. After a couple tries it would crank over and start. When I got back from Cleveland, I took it back and they had it for a month, working on it in their spare time. I had the 05 and told them I didn't need it. During that time, they replaced the starter twice and the alternator once and the battery once. Then they talked to somebody (starter rebuild guy?) and were told to add a start boost relay. They did and it has had no problems since. I think the real solution is to use a factory starter. I believe the aftermarket starters require more current to engage the starter. The stock relay can't handle the increase and the added relay does. Just a guess?

[Elphaba]

:confused: You had a starter issue :nopity:

[Elphaba]

:party: DYNO PARTY FOR ELPHI WED 01/16/08 9AM AT ADC :flowers: :party:

[Mark]

Cool beans. I wonder if the forum will break its "Most users ever online" record???

[Elphaba]

:grouphug: PRAY:grouphug: Ill post up as soon as Im home. Ill leave it to TOM to post the dynos. I dont have a clue. Were going to back off a notch for starters to the 100mm pulley as a mater of caution; but who knows where well end up. 9AM we start the leakdown and CR check with Tom putting in the timing card and the pulley swap. Tom: Should we keep the current plugs or go even colder?

[magnamx-5]

:boxing_smiley: And comeon guys it is Almost 10:00 already :rofl: :tank: :dots: :biggrin:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes, and it is already tomorrow in Australia but it is just 8:00am here and the dyno doesn't open until 9:00. Besides, my computer went down this morning and, if I can't get it back up, we wont be on dyno today. I can post off my PDA but not program PC-Pros.


:boxing_smiley: And comeon guys it is Almost 10:00 already :rofl: :tank: :dots: :biggrin:

[Elphaba]

:2gunelf: SON OF A BISKET :2gunelf:

[wineguy]

Did the "downed" computer prevent dyno runs today? Any news on this project? :hammer:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sadly, yes. We are now re-scheduled for next Wednesday. That was as soon as Dan's schedule would allow.

I am still posting on my PDA.

[socal pat]

I think it's interesting to note that Magna has posted a link to this thread with a laughing smiley. Any interest he shows here is ingenuous. He is rooting for failure. Too bad.

[Elphaba]

:confused: Where?

[magnamx-5]

I think it's interesting to note that Magna has posted a link to this thread with a laughing smiley. Any interest he shows here is ingenuous. He is rooting for failure. Too bad.

BS Pat i was simply pointing out the Irony of the situation. To patently paint me as a opponent to FFS and Dan's car would be wrong. So long as it is not a m45 i think all miatas deserve to have FI and i think that a well marketed mp62 solution will hopefully, get rid of that out dated and small peice of crap.
For the record here is the thread it is in the BS section so you will need to login to read it but other than that you will note that i made no negative comments on the thread whatsoever
:confused: Where?
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/showthread.php?t=15810

[socal pat]

I guess thelsnickering smiley "fooled" me.

[magnamx-5]

I tell you what pat scour the forum and find one negative thing i have said about FFS or Tom/Dan you will be hard pressed. Don't be so gung ho on your stuff that you fail to do the research. Becouse for every finger you point 4 more point back at you ;):boxing_smiley: :dots:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

OK. Kiss and make up. This is neither mnet or MTnet. ;) Let's stay on topic.

[Elphaba]

:angelsad2: What topic? OH YA! Forgot. Sorry. Going back to sleep now.

[socal pat]

I tell you what pat scour the forum and find one negative thing i have said about FFS or Tom/Dan you will be hard pressed. Don't be so gung ho on your stuff that you fail to do the research. Becouse for every finger you point 4 more point back at you ;):boxing_smiley: :dots:

Hahaha Having been over at Mturbo.net I know EXACTLY what you mean. As I said I guess the choice of smiley fooled me. I have been wrong before and will be wrong again shortly......

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think the last couple days with the foolishness at mnet have put a lot of us on edge. It's frustrating, to say the least. We just all need to get together and suck down a couple beers and give it time. It will all go away. :cheers2:

[magnamx-5]

My sentiments exactly Tom no emo Gary here :D

[Elphaba]

:rockon: Got the LAST RX7 AFM from the junk yard. SO. You get your computer working yet Tom:confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes. Up and running. We are on for Wednesday.

[Elphaba]

:party: :taz: :party:

[Elphaba]

:hammer: put the new RX7 AFM in the car today and had a problem running WAY too lean on the freeway, put the stocker in and got it home. Had to re clock the spring twice; first time was too rich all the time, but I tightened it up 2 notches and now its perfect! Cant wait till Wed!!!:taz:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I've decided I no longer want to do the 1.6L. :)

[Elphaba]

:svengo: YOUR KILLIN ME HERE. :svengo:

[magnamx-5]

I've decided I no longer want to do the 1.6L. :)

Whatb:online2long: :shaun:

[wineguy]

I've decided I no longer want to do the 1.6L. :)

I'm pretty sure I don't like the sound of this...

tell me you're just having a bad day! :eek:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That was just a joke. Dan was feeling too good. ;) I have the brackets all built for 25 kits. No time to stop now. :)

[Elphaba]

:eek: 17 and a half hours till dyno time:eek: AAAAUUUUGGGGG!!!

[Elphaba]

I suggest a check list: :ninja: 1: proper heat range spark plugs. 2: 100mm pulley. 3: 95mm pulley 'just in case' 3: proper length belts. 4: 1911 .45cal auto with "Black Tallons" for my temple if we blow up motor #3.5... 5: An "ATF" tee shirt in size large for me! Ill pay ya for it!:cheers2: Test Monkey out.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

95mm and 100mm in the car 10mm hollow points in the Glock. Smallest belt in the car. Spare 15 round magazine in the glove compartment. Spark plugs in the car.

All ready for 3:00 PM.

[Mark]

May the force be with you.....

[Chris Swearingen]

:eek: 17 and a half hours till dyno time:eek: AAAAUUUUGGGGG!!!

Based on my calculations its now about 2 hours to dyno time. Is there a link to the live webcam feed? Or is there a dial in number for a conference call?
:party: :party: :party:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chris

It is actually still 3.5 hours before we tie it down. he wrote that at 6:30 last night AZ (MST) time. 12:00 noon is the target and it is now 8:37.

Probably a couple hours after that before we post results.

[Elphaba]

:sweatdrop: TICK TOCK, TICK TOCK...:sweatdrop:

[Elphaba]

:confused: Hey Tom. You have a camera that can do videos? You could post a dyno pull on "you Tube" :yes:

[Elphaba]

May the force be with you.....
Thanks Mark! May the TORQUE be with us also:devil2:

[wineguy]

... 5: An "ATF" tee shirt in size large for me! Ill pay ya for it!:cheers2:


One of these perhaps?
http://www.thoseshirts.com/atf.html

(I was looking for the "ATF -- sounds like a party to me!")
Anyway... GL -- we'll be watchin'! :cool:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There is a corner store (liquor store) a mile from my house called the Bottle Stop". They have a drive through window even. They sell Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms. ;) They now have a tee shirt that says 'ATF' and their logo. :)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Man, ATF sounds like such a wonderful responsible combination :biggrin: Just add ghetto (ATFG?) and then you are really talkin' great times :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Bill

[Elphaba]

Is it bad to have steam shooting out between the head and the block:confused:

[Elphaba]

:biggrin: Just kidding... :stuart: Waiting for a proper sized belt. 100mm pulley installed valve cover oil leak investigated. Cooler heat range plugs installed. Ready for launch but gotta have the right length belt...

[Mark]

:biggrin: Just kidding... :stuart: Ready for launch...

Let's hope that "Launch" isn't a keyword here!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is still in very good condition. We haven't put it on the duno as yet. Just now installing the belt.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Now you see, you shoulda gone turbo because then you wouldn't need to worry about belts! :biggrin:

Bill

[Elphaba]

Im gonna have a BIG ol belt when I finally get her home. Delay of play for timing card issues. Toms on the phone with Moss. This is the first timing card on a 1.6 so were having a wiring issue. Still hopt to get her on the dyno today. One martini, two martini, three martini,:svengo: FLOOR!

[Elphaba]

FU:censored:K! :2guns: PU:censored:K Problems with timing card!!!! HUGE!!! NO dyno today. (Wheres my gin and olives) We'll try again; same bat time same bat channel; next Tuesday.

[BlownMX5]

Too bad, guys. Sorry to hear it :frown:. We're pulling for you!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. :( Had some oil on the belt tensioner. Looked like the ca\m cover was leaking. Spent time removing and re-sealing the cam cover to find that it is coming from the PS pump. :( Then put the smaller pulley on (dropped from 110mm to 100mm) and had to run to the store twice to get a belt that fit. Then the timing card seems to have an issue? I'm pretty sure it is wired correctly. Brn/Yel for IGN 1 and BRN for IGN 2. Maybe there is some incompatibility with the 90-93? Waiting for a call back from Moss. Didn't really matter. By the time they made it through the oil preoblem and fitting the new pulley/belt, Keith (dyno owner) had to leave anyhow.

New date, if we can resolve the timing card issue, will be Tuesday at 12:00 noon.

[Mark]

Tom, hide the Glock!!!

[Elphaba]

:gun_bandana: POOP! I forgot to blow my brains out!:gun_bandana: Double POOP! Oh well theres always next week:elf:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is always 'hidden'. :) That's what CCW's are for. Although, in he Stte of Arizona, you need no permit to walk around with a Colt .45 SAA strapped to your leg like the cowboys did. You will get strange stares but, as long as it is not hidden, it requires no permit. Arizona believes in the 2nd amendment. ;) I was in Staples a couple weeks back and an old geezer (yea, he was even older than me :)) was carrying a big old hogleg in a cross draw holster on his belt. Boots, jeans, western shirt and all. Kind of made me take a second look. Then I thought about it and realized there were probably 15 other people in the store armed but he was just advertising. LOL

[Elphaba]

Odd... I never get looks when Im walking around with my M14-E2 Guess folks around there arn't just used to guys walking around with suppressed squad machine guns...:sailor: Love living here :biggrin: Never get away with that in more "enlightened states" like Mass or NY. FUK EM...

[Elphaba]

PS: Martini Three..:svengo:

[Elphaba]

:ninja: WOOPS!:ninja: Make that 4..........

[FormerDatsun510Man]

LOL, Martinis at 8 in the morning?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Bill,

That says 7:45 PM.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

:oops:

Thought he was getting into the Mardi Gras spirit LOL

[Elphaba]

:sweatdrop: Any news on the timng card Tom?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not yet. We need to get the oscilloscope on yours to see what is different. See you Monday.

[Elphaba]

:yawn: Got in at 3AM might be a little late Tom.:yawn: Got your email. Tally Ho...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We'll wait lunch for you.

[Elphaba]

:hammer: spent yesterday with Tom and his girl. Had the best choriso and eggs I ever had and then fiddled with the timing card and ociliscope. I think my car is posessed with an evil spirit... Card works fine on Toms car, put the same exact card in mine and POOF! No ignition. Managed to prove the JR boost timing controler does indeed pull timing under boost but Really need the timing card to work as Moss is not making the BTC anymore... He'll be calling the engeneers on Monday... Good news is I got an "ATF" shirt from the bottle stop!:osama: HEH! She goes on the dyno Tuesday with or with out the card as the BTC is on and functioning! :yes:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There is even a better reason that the BTC becoming extinct for us to work at getting the Timing card working on the 90-93. The BTS is a Boost Timing Control card. We want an RTC. RPM Timing Control. There is no reason to give away torque in low RPM just because you are making a lot of boost. In my 99, for example, I am making 10PSI by 3000 RPM and have no ping down there. Pull timing where needed and boost is not the right criteria for timing being pulled. For example, the 05 was making 8-10 PSI from 5000 and up. 2* was all that was needed to let it run on a very hot day on the worst 91 octane I could find. The 99 is making over 15PSI from 5000-7000 RPM but 2* lets it run on a hot day on the same 91 octane fuel.

[magnamx-5]

Hmm I wonder if the ignitors aren't getting the right signal with the new timming card. Maybe the Dwell is set up for a 1.8
Here are the specs to check by FWIW
Dwell settings for 1.6 liter coils:
Dwell Control: Dwell Control
Cranking Dwell: 5.5 ms
Running Dwell: 5 ms



Dwell settings for 1.8 liter coils:
These coils charge faster and need slightly less dwell than the 1.6 coils.

Dwell Control: Dwell Control
Cranking Dwell: 5 ms
Running Dwell: 4.5 ms

Also are you trying to run both the timming card and the BTC together? I would think this would cause interference, if you are. Anyway I hope this helps you guys GL
http://www.miataturbo.net/forum/images/smilies/magna.gif

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Interesting that you have those numbers. We saw cranking dwell much longer than 5.5ms but running we saw ~4ms. Not sure if it changes under load but seemed to be stable at idle and 3500 RPM. That was without the TC.

My 99 was almost identical for running but didn't check cranking. On my 99, the dwell was the same with or without the TC. On the 91, there simply was no output pulse with the TC.

Both cars when running were ~4VDC for the pulse.

[Satisaii]

TC have a good power supply when cranking?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It uses the same connection for power as the ECU uses for power and the PC-Pros use for power. Off boost it should simply pass the signal straight through.

[Satisaii]

Just thinking that there may have been a voltage drop that might explain a no start.

[magnamx-5]

Hmm your 99 has COP with individual ignitors rigth this is a more robust system than Dans singel ignitor twin coil setup if the signal is somehow getting dilluted on the way in to the TC then the coils wont fire right, have you checked the TC out of the Car to see if it has any funky characteristics of resistance etc? I would compare it to the old working TC on Dans car to see if maybe there is a design flaw that makes the 1.6's not work with the new technology. Just like the NB's cant use a Bipes ACU.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. I thought the same. But alas, the voltage was fine.

Just thinking that there may have been a voltage drop that might explain a no start.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not anymore. When #2 and #3 coil melted due to a dead/dying igniter, the SplitFire coils went the way of other useless parts. To MiataMTF's house. ;)

I have stock 99 Miata coils now.

Hmm your 99 has COP with individual ignitors rigth this is a more robust system than Dans singel ignitor twin coil setup if the signal is somehow getting dilluted on the way in to the TC then the coils wont fire right, have you checked the TC out of the Car to see if it has any funky characteristics of resistance etc? I would compare it to the old working TC on Dans car to see if maybe there is a design flaw that makes the 1.6's not work with the new technology. Just like the NB's cant use a Bipes ACU.

[wineguy]

Well, were you able to get the timing card sorted properly? Today's dyno day, right?

Watching, listening, waiting & hoping! :drool5:

[Elphaba]

No, and Yes... Cant get the card to work in the 91 (yet) Dyno time starts around noon AZ time. 15 min or so. Keith has a Mustang on it now so their might be a delay. Looks like we'll have to use the JR BTC for now. :mad: Test Monkey out!

[magnamx-5]

So what happened if anything?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We are currently fixing a belt slip problem at the moment. Only making 13PSI and it should be over 15. ;)

[Elphaba]

:angel: Tom just told a WOPPER!:angel:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You stood there looking over my shoulder and I typed exactly what you said to type. ;)

[Elphaba]

:devil2: HEH! I gota little devil in me...:devil2: Were sorting out a tensioner pulley problem that was causing massive belt slip. soon as we get that problem fixed we'll go on to what ever else pops up.

[Elphaba]

:censored: And POOP! Giving up for today. Pulley interfirence issues. Tom's going to have to make up a new spacer for the crank pulley. Try again next week. :mad:

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Dang! This 1.6 Hotside is turning into a real bear!!! Good luck for next week!

Bill

[chuckerants]

Dang! This 1.6 Hotside is turning into a real bear!!! Good luck for next week!

Bill

And Tom thought I was a PITA. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just so you don't think it was a total loss,
we made 142WHP at 6000RPM. That would have been about 155 at 7000. That was with a slipping belt, a bit rich, a small 100mm pulley and the BTC pulling timing. We wanted to start safe until we could get all the pieces working. I think it will be over 160WHP on the 100mm pulley. That is about what the 1.8L hotsides are making with a 100mm pulley. Nothing to sneeze at. Today was not a total waste. ;)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

You mean specific output per liter right? A 100mm pulley on a Hotside should be somewhere around 180rwhp. 160rwhp on the 1.6 would put you at the same specific output which ain't bad at all :).

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, when BRP was shipping FFS Coldsides they were using 95 and 100mm pulleys. Most of those customers, if I recall, were at 160-170WHP.

Seems to me hotsides were always about 5-10WHP less for the same pulley combination than the coldside? But, I wont argue the point.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Hmmmm, I know the base non-intercooled Hotside MP62 back from my BRP days, which was on a '99 Miata dynoed at 180rwhp and I am positive had 100mm pulley. I know because I was the one trying different pulleys :). It made 173rwhp with the original Powercard and the output improved to 180rwhp with the ELF. I wouldn't be surprised if there was a futher improvement with the PC Pro. Also, the math supports it. I dynoed 240rwhp with a 130. 100/130 * 240rwhp = 185rwhp. And that isn't counting that I have an Air/Air IC restricting flow and the higher hp losses from the supercharger spinning faster. Finally, here is a dyno of a guy running a 100mm on an '01+ Miata:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=434

He's making a tad over 180rwhp and that is the '01+ which typically make a little less power than the '99-'00. Not trying to be argumentative, au contraire, I think 160rwhp is right in line with the same safe specific output for a 1.6L non-intercooled.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I agree that the 1.6L should be about 10% lower than a 1.8L. Anyhow, I think it will make 160+ with the 100mm pulley if the belt works right. :) That still adds about 70WHP to stock. The BTC was pulling about 4-5* yesterday as well. That cost some power but we wanted to be safe until we got it all working right. THEN we will tune for power. ;)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

I know a lot of 1.6rs will be thanking you! I know you might not want to hear this :biggrin: but this will open the door to the 1.6L being able to run a big FMIC with a blower that can push the air and make some really big numbers!

Bill

[magnamx-5]

I know a lot of 1.6rs will be thanking you! I know you might not want to hear this :biggrin: but this will open the door to the 1.6L being able to run a big FMIC with a blower that can push the air and make some really big numbers!

Bill

FMIC what are you smoking you know those cause cancer :rofl:

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Well, with the thermal efficiency of the MP62 dropping to ~ 50-55% at the boost I am running, the alternative would be to inject a few gallons of water for every gallon of gas :rofl:

[pumpkin]

Quote from Bill "Hmmmm, I know the base non-intercooled Hotside MP62 back from my BRP days, which was on a '99 Miata dynoed at 180rwhp and I am positive had 100mm pulley."

I can back that up. I've got a base hotside, 100/65, NIC, stock TB, and old Powercard. I pulled 183whp my only time on the dyno. The only thing I've done is streamline the intake with a custom TB adapter and 3" inlet ducting.
JD

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Bill,

I know you and I really know me :) and I could see that the 'cooling' discussion was going to be like one of our phone calls that go until your phone battery dies. Sooooo, I moved it here:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1126

[Elphaba]

FMIC what are you smoking you know those cause cancer :rofl:
:ninja: Smoking's good for you: Toughens the lungs and builds character:devil: Were back on for Wednesday 4th at 10 AM Toms making parts for spacing out the pulley drive system and Im having Elphi checked out by mikes Place for a PS fluid leak and a couple other things. :hammer:

[magnamx-5]

Well, with the thermal efficiency of the MP62 dropping to ~ 50-55% at the boost I am running, the alternative would be to inject a few gallons of water for every gallon of gas :rofl:

Why not i do it and love it 7 gph ftw :p

[magnamx-5]

:ninja: Smoking's good for you: Toughens the lungs and builds character:devil: Were back on for Wednesday 4th at 10 AM Toms making parts for spacing out the pulley drive system and Im having Elphi checked out by mikes Place for a PS fluid leak and a couple other things. :hammer:

You mean the 6th right? :p GL Dan

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

6th is correct.

[Elphaba]

:hammer: Pulley interference issues "seem" to be resolved.:hammer: Car is being strapped to the dyno now...:sweatdrop:

[Mark]

Let's hope those straps can hold all that torque!

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Go little 1.6 GOOO!!!! :biggrin:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

All I will say for the moment is that it is ready for the big pulley again. ;) :) :) :)

[Elphaba]

:svengo: Popped the motor:svengo:

[Elphaba]

:devil2: JUST KIDDING :devil2:

[lovemx5]

All I will say for the moment is that it is ready for the big pulley again. ;) :) :) :)
A bit more info would be nice. How bad was the small pulley? :confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

First off, let me say that Elphaba is no longer on my Christmas list. :) There I was driving down 87 at about 75 MPH and my PDA, sitting in the passenger seat, went beep-beep-beep. So I pick it up and it says "New mail - Fast Forward Superchargers - Progress: Part Doux". So I glance back at the road and then back at the PDA and press "view". Up pops the message ":svengo: Popped the motor :svengo:". I nearly ran off the road. Of course I didn't get the second message because the forum software doesn't send additional alerts until you visit the board to check the current alert. Dan will have to tell you how long it was from when he posted that until his phone rang but I'll guarantee it was no more than a couple minutes. As in 2-3.

Anyhow, I will get a dyno graph up in a few minutes. Now that I am home, I need shock therapy to get over that alert.

Basically, we gained about 70 WHP (85 to 155) with the 100/65 pulley set. That is almost identical to what we would get on a 94-05 (115 to 185) with the same pulley combo. Not too shabby. Especially when we went 'safe' with a little rich and 0.3*/pound boost on the BTC. we hit a peak of about 9 pounds.

[lovemx5]

First off, let me say that Elphaba is no longer on my Christmas list. :) There I was driving down 87 at about 75 MPH and my PDA, sitting in the passenger seat, went beep-beep-beep. So I pick it up and it says "New mail - Fast Forward Superchargers - Progress: Part Doux". So I glance back at the road and then back at the PDA and press "view". Up pops the message ":svengo: Popped the motor :svengo:". I nearly ran off the road.
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[BlownMX5]

Up pops the message ":svengo: Popped the motor :svengo:".

Yeah, I'm just an innocent observer of this deal and I got a bad acid dumpage in my stomach when I read that, and I didn't need that today :nono:. Elphaba needs to get coal in the stocking this year for that one.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here is the graph.

Unless RWHP and CHP are equal, that is Dynojet RWHP and RW Tq. LOL

[Elphaba]

:rofl: Yup! Bout 3 min. Tom; That should count as "Shock Threapy" The car seems to drive great! :biggrin: Unfortunatly, Im not going to have a chance to put many shake down miles on it this week as I leave for HavaScrew tomarrow. (SAD) Wont be back for a week. The crossover tube we discussed on the phone wont fit, Looks like Ricci had to cut the front of the blower side off ( thus the missing seal ring ) because the blower sits a lot more forward, at least as far at the outlet opening goes, causing fitment issues.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ready for the big pulley yet? :)

[lovemx5]

153rwhp/131ft-lbs is pretty darn good for a first try.

Any update on the Timing Card issues?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I'm just not sure how far we can get on a 1.6L 'non-intercooled'? ;) We just thought we would give it a couple weeks and maybe 500-1000 miles before upping the power. What amazed me is that we gained as many WHP as a 1.8L would have gained with the same pulley ratio.

The BTC appears to work well so the TC is on the back burner for the moment. I would prefer to have the TC but sales and shipments are taking a lot of my time right now. Seems there is a LOT of interest in the $2995 Coldsides. :) That and the fact that I only get a couple hours of Dan's time a week make it difficult. I promise to get back on it ASAP. It is a conundrum.

[Elphaba]

Ready for the big pulley yet? :):yes: Yup!:yes: Seeing how well its running right now what with no ping at all and the fuel being well controled; Im thnking mabey going right to the 110mm. Remember: we had the horrable stock AFM before when we cracked that piston and had it putting out 175 hp or so on 3.5 cilinders. Once the afm was swapped for the RX7 unit it was tuned in 4-5 pulls and no more ping on a 118deg day. The stock afm was the cork in the system that made tuning it impossable. Errr.. Mabey a 107.5 mm pulley... Split the difference:devil2:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Your math is almost as bad as J_Man's. ;) Splitting the difference between 100 and 110 is 105, not 107.5. ;) Next you too will try and convince me that WHP and Crank HP are the equal. LOL

You get a couple hundred flawless miles on it and no more posts about popping the engine and MAYBE, Santa will bring you a bigger pulley. If not, a lump of coal it is.

[Mark]

Reminds me of the boy who cried wolf!

[Steve in VC]

I'm just not sure how far we can get on a 1.6L 'non-intercooled'? ;) We just thought we would give it a couple weeks and maybe 500-1000 miles before upping the power. What amazed me is that we gained as many WHP as a 1.8L would have gained with the same pulley ratio.

The BTC appears to work well so the TC is on the back burner for the moment. I would prefer to have the TC but sales and shipments are taking a lot of my time right now. Seems there is a LOT of interest in the $2995 Coldsides. :) That and the fact that I only get a couple hours of Dan's time a week make it difficult. I promise to get back on it ASAP. It is a conundrum.

Tom,

If the blower pushes a fixed amount of air, I would expect the boost psi to be higher in a smaller engine. If that air is mixed with the right amount of fuel, you should get the same power. What surprises me is that you can run the same amount of air.

On the 170HP coldside - can you provide the pricing for the "Upgrade Kit" (larger pulley, larger throttle bottle, and e-cool)?

Thanks,
Steve

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The blower pushes a fixed amount of air as long as the back pressure (boost) is a constant. If the engine won't flow the air the blower is trying to push, boost goes up. For example, put the same MP62 on a 3L V6 and it will move more air at the same blower RPM with less boost. All I can say is that we did a baseline and it was 85-90 WHP and we made the run shown. So 65-70 WHP gained. The similar pulley on a 1.8L would go from 110-115 to 180-185 WHP. A gain of 70 WHP. Maybe the Dynojet measures WHP on the 1.8L and Crank HP on the 1.6L? J/K :)

I'll get the kit $$ on the pricing section later today. Basically the BTB kit is $500, the E-Cool is $450 and the bigger pulleys range from $100 to $120. Depending on how big. :)

[magnamx-5]

That is a very nice torque curve Tom, the effeciency of the mp62 is realy comming into it's own with the 1.6L if you can swing the boost with the propper AF i think a healthy 170 hp out of the box is totally doable. FWIW my record on a non IC'ed 1.6 is 17.6 psi. GL trying to push that on a mp62 without it melting the bearings though. I think your 9-10 psi is a good place to be and it will certianly impress alot of people. Just as an example of the great pull you have there my car at 8-9 psi on stock ecu was only making 100 wtq by 3K rpm Dan beat me by 25 wtq :rockon: :ninja: :dots: :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I am also running ~17-18PSI non-intercooled. I ship my kits with whatever pulley the customer wants. I am thinking that the 'base' 1.6L might go out with my stock 105mm (about 162-165 WHP). Any pulley of your choice at no additional cost but at your risk.

[lovemx5]

Tom, I'm trying to figure out Elphaba's current setup.

So far the car has the MP62, an RX7 AFM, and a JR BTC.

Does it have the BTB and E-Cool?

Also, Elphaba mentioned fitment issues with the crossover tube. Can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The kit has the MP62, 75mm BTB, E-Cool, RX7 AFM, automatic tensioner, 6 rib belt and pulleys and JR BTC. The kit would ship with everything but the RX7 AFM.

We had a crossover tube from a JR M45 kit and had to cut it into a right and left half to 'stretch' it. There really was no fitment issue. He had another M45 crossover at home and thought it should fit straight up. He tried it and found, as we did, that it needed to be modified to fit. Once modified, as it would come in the kit, there is no issue.


Tom, I'm trying to figure out Elphaba's current setup.

So far the car has the MP62, an RX7 AFM, and a JR BTC.

Does it have the BTB and E-Cool?

Also, Elphaba mentioned fitment issues with the crossover tube. Can you elaborate a bit?

Thanks!

[lovemx5]

Thanks Tom.

[Elphaba]

:biggrin: Going up on pulley size next dyno. Hopefully next Tuesday! Im trying to goad Tom into the 110mm. (little help here):ninja: Ill be calling ADC in the morning for dyno time Tuesday.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You may need more than their help to get me into the 110mm pulley. ;) :2gunelf:I want to go straight to the 130mm pulley.

[Elphaba]

:svengo: You got a 130? You been holdin out...:devil2:

[magnamx-5]

Lemme get this straight 130 is better than 110 cool

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Probably the best route is the 110. Then the 120. Then the 130. :)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

How about NAWS and a 130?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Troublemaker. :-)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Just think Tom, he could get an R4 manifold with four NAWS injectors... that would cool down the air charge to subfreezing temps (even with a 150 pulley) in a heartbeat and he wouldn't need no stinkin' FMIC!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Think I'm kidding? http://dut619.com/s2000/manifold3.JPG :troll:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just to muddy the waters. :)

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1149

[magnamx-5]

Just think Tom, he could get an R4 manifold with four NAWS injectors... that would cool down the air charge to subfreezing temps (even with a 150 pulley) in a heartbeat and he wouldn't need no stinkin' FMIC!!! :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

FMIC is the suck man trust me. Cause i dont run one eiher. :P