Coil On Plug ignition (COP)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

My Splitfire igniter for my SplitFire COPS has decided it doesn't like to run well anymore so I am converting to the Toyota Corolla version. I found a brand new set of 4 Toyota COPs for $100 and should have the mating connectors here Thursday. Maybe I'll get it wired up this weekend?

The Toyota COPs seem to be an inexpensive way to go if it works. I will post the results if it works OK.

[tann3r]

miataturbo.net has a pretty good write up on the toyota COP's if you run into any problems. I've been looking into this as a backup if my oem coils die.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I gather it is pretty straight forward. The igniters are on the coils so it should be simply wire the 12VDC wires together to 12VDC, the grounds together to ground, 1&4 signal to the ECU 1&4 signal out and 2&3 signal to 2&3 ECU signal out. If that doesn't do it, I'll check out the turbo baords again. When I looked there before it was all about hooking them up to this or that aftermarket ECU. If there is a write up for connecting to the stock ECU, let me know. Thanks

[MS2KSE]

O K , I'll stay tuned here, Any special place I should be looking for Toyota COP's ??

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I would look at the junk yard. MIne are for a 2006 Corolla but I think they are the same for 2000-2008. I will post the part numbers and all when/if I get it running. I would hate to see people waste their money beforehand.

Ststus:

The coils should be here today. They were delayed by UPS for some reason?

Yesterday I got a ignition harness from a wrecked Miata. All I need is the small 4 pin plug that goes to the front of the engine so I can make this whole thing plug in.

The last part, which I thought I could get from Toyota, is the 4 plugs for the coils. My coils were brand new that I found on the Toyota forum for $100. A junkyard set of coils should be significantly less and you can take the harness at the same time. I need to visit the local "pick a part" and get the harness.

[MS2KSE]

IF you find more that one please let me know, haven't checked with any M.net Mazda dealers but I'm sure they want a pot full of $$ for a new coil

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The new coils arrived yesterday. Problem #1. The new COP shafts are 9/16" shorter than the SplitFire. Not a greatproblem but I was hoping to use the SplitFire mounting plate. Hoowever, it stands too tall for the new coils. SplitFire coil is on the left, Toyota on the right.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/SplitFire-Mounting-Plate.jpg

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Problem-Number1.jpg

[jrmotorsports55]

Tom, I used 4 coils from a Celica/Corolla on my 99, and it fired right up. I actually purchased a trailer wiring harness, and spliced it in to the stock one in case I revert to stock. Wiring is easy, ground, 12V, 1&4, 2&3. After building the new harness, and sticking in the coils, it fired right up, no issues. I still have to make a fixed mount for the coils, but so far, so good. Good luck with yours.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have one of these and will cut the ignition connector off to make the harness. Do you mean that the trailer connector will fit?

http://FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/IgnitionHarness.jpg

[jrmotorsports55]

Yeah, I used the 4 wire trailer connector, and it worked well after splicing it in. If you have a spare harness, that should be even better though.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

MY misunderstanding. I thought you meant that you used the trailer plug for the coils. :) I rushed home to see if it would fit. Then I realized your were talking about the ignition wire connector. SO I guess I am still off to the junkyard for the coil plugs.

I had the part number for the plastic housing and the part number for the wire pins but I called Toyota last week and they found a part number for the 'pigtail'. $21.xx each. SO I ordered 4. Thursday they called and said the parts were in. I drove up there (~50 miles one way) and the parts guy pulled ul a small plastic bag with two small brown wires with the pins on the end. I asked 'what are those?". "The pigtails you ordered." "Well", I said "first I ordered 4 and there are only two and second, they are just a wire, not the pigtail. Third, I am surprised that you would have the balls to charge $21.xx for a 6 inch piece of thin wire with a pin on the end." Ah well, as I said, back to the junkyard.

[jrmotorsports55]

I ended up buying the plug housings on-line from a dealership, and found a guy on Miataturbo that had spare terminals.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

So, yesterday I visited Pick n Pull and found a dozen Toyotas with COP. However, they were all missing the coils and wiring. Then I went to Pick a Part (3 different locations) only to find they didn't have any Toyotas newer than 2000. Then off to a wrecking yard that specialized in Toyota and Nisson. The don't sell the harnesses. I asked what they do with them and he said cut them off and throw them away. :( Then off to 3 more yards only to get basically the same answer. No wiring harnesses. So I gave up

OK. Here's the latest tonight. I ordered the housings from the dealer at about $5 each. I found the terminals at one dealer for $2.76 EACH and the dealer that I got the housings from wanted $13.xx EACH for the terminals. With MiataMike's help, I found the terminals at Digikey for $13.xx per HUNDRED. :) So I ordered 100 and will gladly give up the left overs to those who need them after I take my 16 and 16 for MiataMike. Looks like we could get six sets per hundred. I also found the housings on line for $4.48 at http://www.trademotion.com/partlocator/index.cfm?action=searchCatalogOEM&siteid=840.

Now all I need is the parts in hand (next week sometime) to finish the project. Looks like my total cost will be around $125.00 not counting yesterdays $1000.00 in gasoline.

[MS2KSE]

crap olo looks like a new or used coil wil be easier to find :mad:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There was a set of 4 coils on EBAY this morning. about $100, I think? The connectors are no longer a problem when you can make 4 for about $25 total.

[MS2KSE]

Thank you, when it's all put together and running like a "raped ape" a few pictures and a parts list will be greatly appricated, that way I can show the "pick & pull" guys what I'm after and won't have to pull my K-Bar cause they think they are dealing with a dizzy blonde grand ma.:2gunelf:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No need to pull your K-Bar. :) I will list the parts and where to get them as soon as I can make it work. The first one takes awhile. The ones that follow are easier. ;)

[MS2KSE]

:angel: OK I'll wait :angel:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here is before and after. All I need is the connector parts which are scheduled for delivery on Thursday.

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/COP/SplitFire-Mounting-Plate.jpg

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/ToyotaCOP.jpg

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Jason,

Do you have the pinout for the coils? It might help to have that to make it work right? :)

I ended up buying the plug housings on-line from a dealership, and found a guy on Miataturbo that had spare terminals.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Jason. Nevermind. I found the pinout. Thanks.

[99mx5]

Cmon Tom, get her done, trackday is on the 27th :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The holidays really slowed down the shipping on the parts. It better be ready by then.

[jrmotorsports55]

Here is a pic of mine.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/jrmotorsports55/DSC00502.jpg

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

With no hold down bracket, have you had any problem with them backing out?

[99mx5]

Tom, if you look closely, you'll see the mounting plate and screws holding the coils.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ari,

I don't think he has them hard mounted as yet.

Jason,

I am thinking of a simple aluminum channel across the tops of the coils and three long screws (one at each end and one in the center) using the three center mounts for the cover. I figure a spacer between the cover and the channel at each screw would lock the coils and cam cover down at the same time. Any comments?

A second, and less favorable method, would be to drill and tap four holes in the cam cover at the location of the four mounting tabs on the coils. Just not a fan of drilling the cover?

[jrmotorsports55]

There is a bracket underneath them. It is thin aluminum, and is mounted to the valve cover using the three factory bolts. I then used 4 6mm x 35mm long bolts with nuts/washers to make mounting studs to hold the coils down. Works good so far.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

My bad. In your previous post you said you hadn't made a bracket yet. Can you post a closeup picture?

[jrmotorsports55]

Here are a few more pics.

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/jrmotorsports55/DSC00504.jpg

http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u182/jrmotorsports55/DSC00503.jpg

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Did you use 18ga wire? Looks like about that or smaller wire with thick insulation?

I like that install. Hope you don't mind if I copy it. :) Cleaner than what I had in mind. Did you drill a pass through hole for the COP itself to keep it as close/tight as possible to the cam cover?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Jason,

Just to confirm, you are using the same COP? 90080-19015? I measured the depth inside the end of the coil to the contact spring and measure roughly 30mm. Then I measured the depth from the ring at the top of the cam cover to the top of the spark plug to be roughly 75mm. That means that the minimum depth from the bottom of the rubber to the end of the coil has to be 105mm (75+30). It is exactly that. If you sit the coil up on a piece of aluminum plate, that would make the contact to the plug questionable. The other solution I see is to remove the rubber seal from the coil and gain a bit but then you would lose the vibration damper that I'm sure is needed. If I put a strip across the tops of the coils and press down ever so lightly, I am almost ensured of decent contact between the coil and the plug.

Comments?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

One more discovery. :)

When I removed the rubber, the coil would still not sit any lower. This, I discovered, is because the large diameter flange at the base of the coil section is 45mm. The flat at the top of the cam cover is only ~42mm. The flange hits the sides of the cam cover before the coil can actually seat all the way. I took my dremel and made a flat on eace side of the flange by removing only a couple mm and the coil will no go all the way down allowing the rubber to actually compress slightly. This will make a tight seal and allow for good electrical contact of the internal spring.

http://FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Flange-Flats.jpg

[jrmotorsports55]

Tom, for my install I used a 16 gauge trailer wiring harness.

No problem on copying my setup, as I got it off of Miataturbo.net. For the 3 factory valve cover bolts, I ended up putting a washer between the bottom of the aluminum plate and the valve cover to help clearance for the heads of the 4 retaining bolts for the coils.

In regards to the coils, yes those are the ones that I am using. The only mod I made was to slightly file the plastic rim slightly so they would seat all the way down (where it would have hit the sides of the valve cover channel, and I retained the rubber gasket). The cars runs fine with no hesitations (much better than stock). I was worried about the length as well, but all seems to be fine.

Hope this helps.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sounds like you ground the same spots I did. I found some 1.5" lond hex spacers that are drilled through with a 0.192 hole. That is almost perfect to tap for 6mm threads. :) $10 for three of them. Then 50mm long threaded rods for $1 each and 25mm long threaded rods for $0.80 each. I can put the 50mm threaded rod in one end and tighten it down on the cam cover. Then lay the 1" channel across the coils and use nuts to tighten it down to the standoffs. I think I'll feel more secure with a little compression on the internal spring in the COPs.

I'll write the whole thing up when I'm done. Found the aluminum channel at Home Depot for a couple $$ for 8 feet. All I needed was 14". I'll gladly make the left overs available to others if they want it. Although you can probably buy 8 feet of it for less than it would cost to ship? :) Maybe I'l make some kits when I'm done with everything but the coils? I'll wait to see how it works/looks when I'm done first.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Now I understand the trailer wiring harness. I am slow sometimes. :) You used it for all the wires. Got it.

This is what I have in mind for the clamp. Wasn't thinking when I did the 25mm threaded rods for the top side??? I'll simply use 6mm screws into the hex standoffs. You will have to imagine the standoffs as they won't be here until Friday. :) Imagine the channel anodized black too.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Channel.jpg

[jrmotorsports55]

Looks good.

[MS2KSE]

[QUOTE=Tom Maybe I'l make some kits when I'm done with everything but the coils? I'll wait to see how it works/looks when I'm done first.[/QUOTE]
Make it as you'll say "plug and play" so even a grand mother can figure out and I'm in.:gnorsi:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, the pins showed up today. and they fit the coils. :) The connector shells are due in Saturday and then I can see if the pns fit the shells and can make up the harness.

[MS2KSE]

So, by trailer harness you'll are talking about the 4 wire harness that wires a boat or what ever trailer to the car/truck pulling said trailer ?
reason I'm asking is I thought I'ld start asking the salvage yards and need to know if I just need the 4 coils or should i ask for coils and the harness ??

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You want to get the harness as well as the coils. If, for no other reason, to get the connectors. If you get enough of the Toyota harness, you won't need tge trailer harness. If you are making tge harness from scratch, then the trailer wiring harness is a good cheap source for the needed 4 wires.

[jrmotorsports55]

Yes, I got a universal trailer harness that had both sides of the 4 plug connector joint for ease of install/removal. I bought 4 new connectors from Toyota for the Coils, but it would be better if you can get them along with your coils.

[MiataMTF]

Tom, I let Bob (Popstoy) know that you are working on a COP setup. He had some problems on his and might benefit from your work.

Mike.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

What year is his? I heard he thought he needed to invert the signal or some such? Yours, mine and Jasons are all in the 1999/2000 group and Jason had no problems, so I have high hopes. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, here is the completed hold down assembly.

First picture is the parts. I used the 50mm threaded rods, the 1.5" drilled standoffs, the channel and 6mmx12mm SHCS. The hole in the standoffs is just a few thousandths tight for the 6mm tap but, with a little oil and coaxing, they tapped OK. I tapped the end for the threaded rod so that 40mm of rod stuck out when the rod was tight in the standoff. That was the length of the screws that I took out of the cam cover.

Second picture is the standoffs with the threaded rod secured in the cam cover.

Third picture is the final assembly. If the standoffs were 0.100" shorter, it would have been perfect. I am thinking of putting a thin rubber pad between the channel and the coils to add just a little more pre-load on the coil springs but I am afraid it might hurt the heat dissipation from the tops of the coils.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Holddown1.jpg

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Holddown2.jpg

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/COP-Holddown3.jpg

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Now for the bad news. :(

The pins I got fit nicely on the wires and on the coils but are too small for the sockets. GRRRR. So, I will go on the hunt for the correct pins and, in the meantime, simply push the pins on the coils and get on with driving. I'll wrap that up in the morning.

[jrmotorsports55]

Looks good.

Pop's car is a 2000, but it's a cali car, and he thinks the cali ECU has something to do with the problem.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Tom,

Looks great!

A few ideas :)

One way you could get the COPs secured is to drill four holes in that bar you have across all of them. The four holes would line up with the bolt hole on each COP. Next you could use a bolt, nut and washer(s) to secure the COP. The bolt would go through the hole in bar facing downwards and the nut would go on the side of the bolt in between the COP and the bottom of the bar. Washer(s) could be used in between the nut and the bar so as to give it the correct pressure on the COP to hold it firmly in place. In other words, the bolt would be going through the COP bolt hole, but the nut would be what would actually be holding it with the pressure. One this was determined you would basically preassemble the bar with the four bolts, washers and nuts and then attach it to the standoffs as you have done.

Another method would be to make a plate that bolts to the valley of the cam cover. You could use those two bolt holes that used to hold the spark plug wire couplers to secure it in place, for example. The plate would have to have holes in it for the three bolts that are in the middle of the cam cover and also of course the four COPs. There could be a standoff that would line up with each COP mounting hole. Either a nut or bolt could then fasten each COP to this.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it is in and wired temporarily. Cranks but no start. Time to get out the oscilloscope, I guess. :(

Jason, are you running the stock ECU? Popstoy sent me a note and said his is also a 99. I can't believe the CA cars modified the ignition any. We have the timing card running on a couple CA 99s and there were no problems. I think it would be unhappy if the signal was inverted. Just to confirm, left to right on the coil is GND, trigger, unused, 12VDC; correct?

Hmm.

[jrmotorsports55]

I am using the stock 99 ECU. MY wiring is ground, trigger, unused, pos from left to right. Fired right up.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

TaDa. It runs. New coils and wires. Happily, the original harness was still there and all I had to do was plug it in.

I'll take it out tomorrow for a shake down run. Idles smooth and the vacuum is where it should be (18-20"Hg).

[jrmotorsports55]

Congrats. What was the issue?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I put in a new set of stock coils and wires. I have no idea of the Toyota COP problem? If nobody buys the Toyota COPs, I'll play with them later. I was having withdrawel form the sweet music of Coldside Whine. :) I found out this morning how good 15-20PSI boost feels and sounds again. I will take a look with the scope what a good trigger signal looks like into the stock coils/igniter. That will give me a clue as to why the Toyota COPs didn't work. I think the ECU signal may be marginal and work on one 99 and not another. Bob (Popstoy) went back to stock Miata coils as well. You and I and Bob all have the same 99.

Do you have any type of timing control on yours Jason? Bob has one (Bipes?) and I have one (PC-Pro TC). Could that make a difference?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here's what I got. The top waveform is what I got with the stock coils. The lower waveform is what I got with the Toyota COPS. I think it was only about 0.4 or 0.5 volts? I just don't exactly remember. My guess is that it needs to be more than 0.6VDC (minimum trigger for a silicon transistor) and stay high for the 6ms to keep the transistor on. As is, there is just not enough drive time which, I'd guess, translates into ignition dwell.
http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/COP/Waveform.jpg
I think there is too much input load on the driver wih the Toyota COPs and it needs some help. Probably a pull up resistor would do the trick. When unloaded, the stock signal looks about the same as the upper signal but is 12VDC and nice and square for the full 6ms.

[jrmotorsports55]

I don't have any add on controlers, just the stock ECU running things. That very well could be the difference, but I am definitely not an electronics expert.

[99mx5]

TaDa. It runs. New coils and wires. Happily, the original harness was still there and all I had to do was plug it in.

I'll take it out tomorrow for a shake down run. Idles smooth and the vacuum is where it should be (18-20"Hg).



Just in time for the Jan 27th trackday :P

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Works for me. :)

[99mx5]

Looks good.

Pop's car is a 2000, but it's a cali car, and he thinks the cali ECU has something to do with the problem.

I just did this conversion, my car is a '99 CA spec car, no probs.

[Godless Commie]

Just finished my COP conversion!

Took me almost all day, but it was worth it.

I am simply amazed at the improvement both in idle and everywhere else.
Better throttle response, too..

Aaaaand, it fired on the first try ;)


Pics later.

[Satisaii]

Glad to hear it.

[socal pat]

I just did this conversion, my car is a '99 CA spec car, no probs.

Sooooo what do you think is behind the some-cars-can thing? I would love to do it, but fear I'll fall in the problem camp.

[Godless Commie]

Sooooo what do you think is behind the some-cars-can thing? I would love to do it, but fear I'll fall in the problem camp.

The secret is the dwell reducer.

Aside from reducing the dwell, the thing also acts as an amplifier..