170WHP Coldside

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just curious if you guys think there would be any interest in a 170WHP Coldside kit that would list for $2995 ready to run? It would/could be upgraded later to the higher WHP version with bolt on parts.

Seems there are other 170WHP kits, both turbo and SC, at or above that price.

Am I missing an introductory market?

[Race Grandpa]

YES. The more options/products the better for any business.

It is a good opportunity to up-sell into the existing units with higher WHP. (i.e. if the mods to get to a higher WHP are overall more costly in the end.)



If running at a lower boost can help negate the risk of detonation and the possible expense of buying other items that would prevent this, it would also be attractive.

[ScottA]

I am sure there are folks that look at nothing but the cost going into a project like this ,but I think it is the satisfaction you get when the project is over that is the true indiacator of value. The one thing that isn't reflected in the base price of these kits is your, {Tom's'}, commitment to customer service. That alone is priceless. I think that your reputation will be your biggest sales promotional tool. I know for myself that was the factor that swayed me to your kit. And now that it is installed and I have gotten to put some miles on it I am apsolutely sure that I made the right dicision. Thanks for being availible at all hours and giving free pointers.


"We talk about HorsePower ,but it is Torque that we feel."

[Race Grandpa]

Do this and then follow up with a press release to GRM on all of your products with a detailed description of E-Cool.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Is that at the wheels or the crank or a combination of the two. LOL Sorry, I just couldn't resist. Can I use that quote? Is it yours or did you find it someplace?


"We talk about HorsePower ,but it is Torque that we feel."

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Thanks for the feedback. I think I will promote it that way. A new 170WHP coldside kit.

Scott, Thanks for the kind words. I try as hard as I can to have only happy/satisfied customers. So far, I am at least 98%. ;)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Deleted at the request of Gary Fischman at mnet.

[TrackDayHookey]

Tom,

What's the difference that makes it a '170' kit? MP45?

From personal experience, I know that with enough blow-by the current coldside can be a 170 kit, no changes required:devil2:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Stock throttle body, smaller pulley and no E-Cool.

[MS2KSE]

I thought someone would have asked by now what this new kit consists of ? OR what's the difference between the 170 whp and the 200 whp kits ?

[da_blue]

I do have the basic original BRP coldside setup (no e-cool with 100mm pulley) on my 2000 and it is exactly what I was looking for. Changing the flaky ELF for a robust pc-pro this winter will make me even more happy.

Not to say that I wouldn't have bought the fully featured kit if it would have been available at the time but for sure one can be very happy with such a kit.

I think one would go with a base kit if it's less expensive but also simpler to install. An easy kit to install made easier ;-)

On the other hand, if in a year or two from now I would to hire new horses, I want my kit to allow it.

Keep on the good work !!!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If I remember correctly, the price from BRP was $4200 for that kit?

[fourwhls]

I think its a great idea and a great marketing plan.

If you sell the 170hp kit for 2995, I will bet money that a good percentage of the people that buy it will be calling back to buy the upgrade parts soon thereafter.

I would recommend that you tap the manifold for the e-cool and then plug it. I don't think there are many people that would be willing to pull that manifold back off and send it back to be modified.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

All of the manifolds are pre-tapped now. All the upgrade parts would be strictly bolt on. Thanks for reminding me about the need for a plug though. We did that with the early kits where the E-Cool was pre-blower. The BTB adaptor was drilled, tapped and had a plug.

[da_blue]

If I remember correctly, the price from BRP was $4200 for that kit?

Pre-sale at $3999 and almost a year of waiting was the deal at the time ;-)

That clearly illustrates how much one gets now with the FFS kit with tried and tested hardware and robust electronic !

[Toby Weir-Jones]

Tom --

Do you have any IAT data w/e-cool disabled at the lower boost level? What boost at sea level would the 170rwhp kit be configured for? Any concerns about track use, altitude, etc with this config?

twj

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The IAT should be pretty low. I have no first hand data. My 99 has never been that low. ;) All of the original BRP kits running around were in the 6-7PSI 170WHP level. I would have no concerns about track or altitude. There are a lot of 170WHP non-intercooled (E-Cool or otherwise) kits running around. That is kind of the upper safe number.

I would alsays use good fuel for track use. Fuel seems to be the #1 track killer. If you are talking autocross, fuel is not as critical.

[Steve in VC]

I assume this will still require the PC-Pro.

I like it! A low cost, upgradable, system is a great marketing idea.

Low cost to get them in.

A great kit, with great support to keep them.

Much less to upgrade than replace the system with another 200HP system.

By the way, anyone know what is in the M62 kit Good Win Racing is selling for $2995. Not much detail.

http://www.good-win-racing.com/Mazda-Performance-Part/61-0018.html

[Toby Weir-Jones]

That's just the moss kit.

http://www.miatamania.com/Shop/ViewProducts.aspx?PlateIndexID=58314

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. If you want one of those kits, let me know. I will sell it to you for $2995 as well. I can also resell the Moss kit.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes. Main fuel will still be via PC-Pro.

I assume this will still require the PC-Pro.

[MiataMTF]

Yep. If you want one of those kits, let me know. I will sell it to you for $2995 as well. I can also resell the Moss kit.

That's just it - at 170whp, it's a coldside analog to the MOSS kit, albeit with a better autotensioner, etc.. The marketing would have to entice those interested in a readily-upgradeable coldside - maybe you can offer your kits in "Stage-1" (170whp) and "Stage-2" (190whp). That would allow you to offer a "Stage-2 Upgrade" which is almost self-explanatory. I say GO-FOR-IT.

[Steve in VC]

I agree:

Stage 1
Stage 2
Upgrade from stage 1 to 2, detailing bigger pully, bigger throttle body & E-Cool. (a detailed list, so those of us that are simple of mind can understand how easy it is to upgrade)

Stage 1 may allow some of us to burn off our tires and clutch, instead of considering them part of the initial kit cost.

Question - would Stage 1, as a subset of Stage 2, automatically be CARB approved, or do you have to go through that nonsense again....

How about doing the same thing with the hotside kit. Stage 1 being head to head with the Moss kit. Then add a 270WHP "stage 3". Intercooler, bigger crank pully (as you say, the MP-62 is loafing), bigger injectors, etc. Suitable for built engines.

Just a thought.


Steve in VC (CA)

[Mark]

I like the idea of progression. I'm a person who always said I didn't need more power. But somewhere about a year and a half ago while at the track doing a test-n-tune, there was a Neon that I couldn't get around on the straights. I had him dead in the sights when it came to the corners but since this was a test-n-tune, no passing allowed in the corners. Standard instructions were if someone's riding your rear bumper, move to the side and let them go. This guy must have been zoned out during that part of the driver's meeting.

Anyways, I digress, here I am with a supercharger and loving it. Had the 170 been available last year I might have decided to go that route.

But considering other products on the market, I'd personally stay away from calling it "Stage 1" and "Stage 2". Maybe "Arctic" and "Arctic Blast". ;)

[Wayne-n-Fla]

But considering other products on the market, I'd personally stay away from calling it "Stage 1" and "Stage 2". Maybe "Arctic" and "Arctic Blast". ;)
Something easy like the "170" and "190+". and not associated with anything else

[V8KILR]

Do you think the 170 kit would be suitable for an engine with 200,000 well cared for miles?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Without a compression and leak down test we would not have any idea but that does sound like a lot of miles. If all was good with the compression and leak down tests, I would probably do rings and a 3 angle valve job at the least.


Do you think the 170 kit would be suitable for an engine with 200,000 well cared for miles?

[Tink]

I would make sure anything included coldside, since IMO, that's the principal driver of your products.

So some thoughts -

(no Stage, since that's been used by another vendor)

Coldside Step 1

Coldside First Step

Coldside The Starter Step

Coldside The Starter Kit

etc

etc

And yes, it's a great idea.

[gludlow]

I think something like "Coldside 170" and "Coldside 190" is best; coming from the world on PC components, the number progression is a logical, satisfying system. Maybe you could even work out some other upgrades (bigger pulley?) and have a coldside 210 or 220 someday :sailor:

So Fast Forward Supercharger Coldside 170, which you can upgrade to the FFS Coldside 190 kit with the addition of the E-Cool 5th injector system and bigger pulley?:confused:

[opus]

I think something like "Coldside 170" and "Coldside 190" is best; coming from the world on PC components, the number progression is a logical, satisfying system. Maybe you could even work out some other upgrades (bigger pulley?) and have a coldside 210 or 220 someday :sailor:

So Fast Forward Supercharger Coldside 170, which you can upgrade to the FFS Coldside 190 kit with the addition of the E-Cool 5th injector system and bigger pulley?:confused:

This is the best naming convention I have heard... FFS Coldside 170, 190, etc. 170, 190 points out the benefit to the end user, which is what someone like me cares about.

I also work in the PC world...so I may have a PC type bias here.