Contd. from Deja Vu

[V8KILR]

Wow I can't beleive you said that, Tom. I figured, that you would despise turbo's the way I do. After reading into them, they have made a little space of consideration in my brain, but the only time I'll go turbo is if I get another miata, What about the Big Gulp car? It made like 340 with an Eaton mp62 coldside.

[mx3jmcb]

The deal is most people here would rather have a moderate power bullet-proof system that's reliable over a high power kit.

275whp is something attainable with a hotside blower (perhaps even CS) but at that power, if you're into track racing, your blower certainly won't last very long when you go at full throttle for about 20-30 minutes time. Many people like to post their dyno sheets but rarely do post after they grenade their engine or blower. For reliability, i'd keep an mp62 south of 250whp from what i've seen so far.

As Tom said, if you're into high hp apps....(meaning north of 250whp) go turbo but then you'll most likely need rods, pistons and after you'll run into tranny issues and so on. To me, the extra pleasure you get vs. the reliability you lose ain't worth it. A stock miata on a race track is pretty damn fun in my book, if you've got an ego and don't like to get passed, then you get the coldside...If you still need more well, like Tom said, get a turbo.

As for the MOAB, other than the reliability issues....many people consider it to be a TAD too large of a blower for the miata engine...you lose a lot of the low end pickup that you get from an mp62 which is really often the main reason why you purchase an SC over a turbo.

[Gord96BRG]

What about the Big Gulp car? It made like 340 with an Eaton mp62 coldside.
Yes, with a standalone ECU, water injection, water-air intercooler, nearly open exhaust, overspinning the blower waaaay beyond Eaton's redline for the blower, AND with nitrous oxide!! RJW has posted recently on Miata.net (ie sometime in the last 2 months) that he has seriously detuned that car for daily driving - he's probably in the 260 range now?

[V8KILR]

Wow, I was up in the Tampa area a few weeks ago and saw an Identical miata on the interstate with a chrome sparkle in between the door and the front wheel well. I could swear it was him

Well, I was planning on running, a low, safe boost for a '94 with 200,000, well cared for, miles. Until I come with the money for an engine rebuild. Then the power will slowly but surely skyrocket. I emailed Corky Bell about the MOAB and I am waiting for a response. 302 whp is very attractive to me. If you have the FM catalog, the rebuilt engine with the '00 head and all the expensive goodies, was what I was looking at getting in a few years.

[V8KILR]

I think you need to talk to one of the companies that make kits or add-ons for 275WHP.

What companies make these ad ons. So far, your the only company that I see selling a coldside mp62.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

One other distinction is that Big Gulp's Miata was yet another version of a Coldside... I think he liked to call it a Coooolside :biggrin:

It had no relation to the FFS Coldside other than having an MP62 supercharger mounted on the intake side of the engine. He custom made everything, as he is an expert machinist. In the case of the FFS Coldside you have a cast intake manifold with the supercharger bolted solidly to it. There is no provision for an intercooler unless you modified it yourself for this as far as I am aware. On the other hand, Big Gulp had a separate low volume intake manifold that looked a lot like an IRTB setup (and had variable length runners with sleeved fittings... very trick). The blower was mounted seperately from the intake manifold with its own bracketry. There was a Spearco Air/Water intercooler connected to the outlet of the blower with silicon hose and then also from the intercooler to the intake manifold. Also, it was running both pre and post blower WI. He said he needed to run the WI pre blower to keep it from warping the shaft at the excessive rpm it was turning (over 21K rpm!!). He also had nitrous on it.

Like mx3jmcb pointed out, I would be concerned with how long a setup like this could last on the track. Quarter mile racing is one thing... for that, the Big Gulp is the perfect ultimate MP62 solution IMO. However, at 21K rpm, it is only a matter of time (minutes?) that the MP62 would last on a race track. Probably would require some sort of oil cooler and perhaps and external oil supply. But that would be new territory to discover.

When it comes to the track, up to the 130mm pulley I have heard of no blower failures. However, even though the 140mm and 150mm pulleys work on the street, on the track these have both been the sizes that the MP62 has had a few failures. The 140mm generally would yield between 240-250rwhp whereas the 150 would yield 250-270rwhp (did do a 300rwhp dyno queen run at BRP with that pulley, but that wouldn't be something that I would run at the track).

So, I believe this is why Tom said go turbo for 250+rwhp. So far at least, going to that power level on the MP62, which has only been done on the Hotside, makes reliability of the setup questionable IMO. Yet, at 200, 220rwhp they are bulletproof (provided the owner has it tuned correctly). Another thing to consider is that at 250+rwhp, if you are going to track your Miata, you really need to look at a stronger transmission (6-speed or gears from FM) along with cooling problems that become evident at those sort power levels. Some people with the high hp turbo setups have done some pretty radical things to the frontend, hood, etc. to just get adequate cooling at those power levels.

Bill

[FormerDatsun510Man]

What companies make these ad ons. So far, your the only company that I see selling a coldside mp62.

I think that was tongue in cheek humor ;)

Though you could try the "experts", who shall remained unnamed, over at the Miata forum.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, right after I wrote that, I went to the sink and w
shed my mouth out with soap. Then went back to my computer and washed the keyboard for writing it. Now my computer doesn't work. ;)

Seriously, for power much above 225-250, a turbo is the way to go. Also, for power much above 200WHP, you need otyer vendors. I would rather your engin blow up with their kit than mine. Everything in
life is give aand take. My customer base is more into good power and drivability than big dyno numbers. Note too that when you see those 250-300 or higher numbers, they are on built engines. A 2.0L stroked engine already has a 12% HP advantage over a 1.8L. That means my 200WHP base kit would already be at 225 and a 225 kit would be 250 with no extra work. Now, to make it run and idle, you need to add a full ECU ($2000), bigger injectors, etc. That next 25 WHP will only cost you about $12,000. :)

Wow I can't beleive you said that, Tom. I figured, that you would despise turbo's the way I do.

[V8KILR]

Well, I was never thinking about tracking it. I was thinking more along the line of a daily driver, sometimes autocrossed. The car I have now will become a track car in the near future. So, If i had an FM built engine, and an FFS coldside on a 140 mm pulley, with pre and post blower injection, where do you think that would put me hp wise.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Personally, I think it will still be 225 WHP. :)

I do have the ability to run pre and post fuel injection on mine. Hmm, maybe I should try that? It was set up so I could try either and the conclusion is that post is better than pre BUT, a combination might be a neat thing to try. One to take the heat out of the SC and the second to take the heat out of the air.

I will be testing mine again now that the ignition is fixed (?). I think there is a good possibility that the reason the HP dropped off above 5500 RPM was the dying coils (or igniter) on cylinder 2 and 3. Time will tell. At the moment I have been spending my 'spare' time on the Coldside for the Automatic Transmission.

[V8KILR]

Try it and post results. A question. On the top of the TB adapter, its like a triangle popping out of the top, with a flathead screw in it. What is that?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That's the spot pre-blower waiting for an injector. ;)

[V8KILR]

I KNEW IT!! So why is it on top. Shouldn't it be underneath. Is my TB adapter upside down?

[V8KILR]

There is a 5 inch Fuel rail looking thing under the TB adapter with vacuum lines running to the brake booster, FPR, and a solenoid on the firewall, behind the SC. What is it?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

On top is correct. It is on properly.

The block underneath is for the PCV valve and the hose to the vacuum distribution block.

[V8KILR]

Is that what the SS controls, the 5th injector?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes. The SS controls that injector. If your 5th injector is not pre-blower where it was in the early days, where is it?

[V8KILR]

Well, that explains what Mark said. He said he had the xtra injector, and SS layin around somewhere. He either never put them on, or took them off before we bought it. He also mentioned a smaller pulley for higher boost. I assume he meant a larger CRANK pulley, but I could be wrong. I measured the crank pulley and it was 120mm, so I assume he has a smaller SC pulley. He won't answer my PM's though, so IDK.



That also explains why I couldn't find the SS anywhere. I guess I am not doing anything for cooling. How does that work on a 120mm pulley?:confused:

[V8KILR]

Maybe I should 'just' twincharge it!!:) That would be pretty cool. Like that M-Edition on cardomain. What did he make, like 415 hp with the low-end torque of a supercharger?