So what's your new Coil Over Tom?

[chuckerants]

Tein Flex or JIC Magic?

[Dr Evol]

Rumor has it, JIC's

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Rumor is correct. They are on their way. Should be here in a week or so. Supplied by Gearhead Garage. Steve is starting to market a nice line of product.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I should add to that they are 12/9 springs.

I installed the RB tubular sways front and rear and that cured my lean in the curves but hitting the end of the straight and stomping the Goodwin brakes causes the nose to still dive. Straight, but dive none-the-less. Hopefully the JICs will cure that.

Also ordered a set of ToYo RA-1s for the spare Kosei rims for the track.

[Red Lightning]

Wow, Tom 12/9 is pretty stiff for a 'daily driver', fairly close to the SM set up. My set up is 8/5, with the RB bars which is great for street use, a tiny bit soft for the track. Please be sure to let us know about the ride.

You will like the RA-1's, they are a great street tire, we have them on Susan's car. Soft ride, great traction, relatively quiet for what they are. :) They worked well along with the FFS to keep the big turbo diesel trucks subdued as we drove the grades and curves of the San Juan Skyway out of Durango. :lol:

Lyle

[chuckerants]

From everything I've read of peoples' JIC and Flex setups, the stiff springs are more than tamed by the shocks so that it "feels" softer than the numbers would indicate.

[Steve]

Thanks Tom! Your Toyo's are sitting next to me as I type. The JIC's are in and I will pick them up in the next day or two.

I'm interested to see how the 12/9 combo works. I believe a track car like Tom's with lots of power, tire, and big brakes will be able to use them, but it's not going to be for everyone. That's the beauty of these JIC's: he can run a big spring while I'm starting out with an 8/6 combination (and maybe going even softer) yet there's enough adjustment range to cover us both.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Now changed to 12/10 instead of 12/9. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

OK. I picked up the 05 for the new fuel card and dropped of the 99 to get the new set of BEAUTIFUL JICs (10/12). My wife said they were way to pretty to hide under the car. I agree but I paid way too much to make lamps out of them for the grandkids bedroom.

[Serpico]

hmmmm...lamps made from shocks/coilovers??? Sounds like the perfect gift for the guy who has ..........

Mind if I steal the idea????

[Steve]

Actually, I think it's been done already. Great car guy gift idea though!

I was at a former drag racer's house a few years back... he had a crankshaft from his old top fuel dragster that had been converted into a lamp! Great (and very heavy) piece of artwork.

Tom, your wife has great taste in parts! Lucky man...

[socal pat]

So Tom, how are the kidneys? 12/10 are some big numbers! When you go--you go all the way. We are looking forward to the review!!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Dropped the car off at Mike's Place and they will do it tomorrow or next week. No rush on my part. Having too much fun with the new auto-tensioner for the hotside and the new fuel card.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I am amazed. I picked the car up Wednesday the 9th. Drove it home. Got up Thursday morning and drove almost non-stop to Cleveland (2100 miles). Then drove back. They are actually pretty comfortable. Worst was on washboard roads. Took them out for a 'spin' on the track yesterday and they were really great with the new RA-1s. Took a bit to get the mold release off the tires. The car seems to have a touch of oversteer. Not sure if I should stiffen the front RB sway or delete the rear RB sway or modify the JIC settings. I had them set to mid on the rebound. Spring preload is just barely and ride height was set back to stock.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

BTW, at 100MPH at the end of the straight, I could smash the brakes hard and not have ANY nose dive. :)

[socal pat]

I am jealous of your RA-1's 8) Anyway before you go eliminating your rear sway you might want to try looking at your tire pressures. If you are getting a tad of oversteer you can take off a pound or two of pressure off the rears. I would try a click or two back on the rear shocks as well.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I did drop the rear 2# but then it started to rain so we swapped tires back and left. The track was already a bit greasy from the morning rain.

Next time out I'll play with that. Thanks.

[Steve]

Glad to hear you're liking them Tom!

Since the 12/10 combination results in a lower F:R spring rate ratio than stock your chassis settings for stock springs will result in a bit more oversteer. Depending on how bad you feel the oversteer is, here are some options:
-Is your rear bar on it's softer setting? If not, set it there.
-Put your stock rear bar back on.
-Do you have the standard RB bar for your year car (it's 1 1/8" in diameter?) You can upgrade to their '01-'05 bar which is 1 1/4" diameter.
-Add a little bit of front spring preload and then use the ride height adjuster to bring the car back down (one of the beauties of the JIC system: separate ride height and spring preload adjustments.) 8)
-Go down a bit on the rear dampening.
- Where is your rear camber set? Increasing it a bit can reduce power-on oversteer. Ride height is an influence here as well: camber gain increases as the car gets lower. Checking temperatures across the tire tread will help indicate if this is needed. As for tire pressures, that's a whole 'nother post: just remember that on radial tires pressure changes not only the tire's contact patch but it's spring rate as well.
If it's just a bit of oversteer, just one of these may fix it: if it's big sideways all the time the answer may be a combination of items.

If there's a chance I'd like to get a brief drive in your car: then I can recommend specific changes.

Steve

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Steve,

Thanks for the help. My rear RB bar does not have any adjustments. My front RB bar is on the soft setting. It could go harder. I have heard some say to remove the rear bar all together. I have the big standard one for the '99. Again, it does have a 'stiffer' setting. That might make it work like a bigger bar.

I still need to find a set of corner scales and do the shock setup right. It might be a bit off. The track was also a bit greasy from the rain and my tires were brand new. First time on the car so they might have needed some wear in as well. I had them at 30PSI all around and normally I set my tires, even for the track, at 28#.

My camber is set to stock as I put a LOT of street miles on the car. Like picking it up and doing a 4500 mile round trip to Cleveland. I don't even keep up with 3000 mile oil changes anymore and Mike gives me hell when I go 5000 miles on the oil. :)

Ride height was set to exactly where it was stock. I was concerned about lowering it any as the roads out here are not conducive to low slung cars.

Damping was set to mid all around. I thought about playing with that but, as with tire pressure, the rain stopped me. I only got it sideways once (I think Ari got that on video :)). I probably need more time on them before I make any serious changes. Might be that just dropping the pressure from 30 to 28 might cure it. Steering into the drift and getting on the gas seemed to straighten it right back out. It wouldn't do that before. I also had no problem smashing the big brakes at the end of the straight. No more nose dive or wobble. That part felt GREAT.

I am totally amazed at how well they feel on the street at the same settings. Not harsh at all. The don't like the rumble strips on the roads or the cross road tar strips on poor roads, but other than that, no problems and they are actually very comfortable to ride. Very compliant. I want to try setting the dampening to the soft setting for the street and see how that feels and try full hard for the next track day and see what that does as well. Thanks again.

I really recommend a set of these for any Miata that gets more than simple street duty. The wife is taking the grandkids back home next week. Maybe I'll take a day and go canyon crarving and try some different settings. I need to cut an access hole in the trunk liner (or just remove it?) for the rear adjusters.

[socal pat]

Hey Tom I just remembered I have a stock small rear sway you can have for nuttin'. When I can actually walk around again and make my trip out to see You and Mike I'd be happy to throw it in the trunk.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Pat,

Thanks for the offer. I still have the stock one I took off. I will try some of the other things first. It wasn't real bad so I think I am close. Tire pressure might even do it.

[raceskier]

Tom,

At that F/R spring ratio, you might want to try no rear bar at all. I ran my Tein's like that until I was able to put in softer rear springs. The softer rear springs will let you put the power on better out of the low speed stuff.

Ken

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think that is what Ari did as well. That is a simple change to try and I might do that one right after I test the tire pressure change. Thanks

Does anybody think going through the effort to move the front RB sway to the hard setting will be worthwhile? I really don't want to stiffen it any more but I thought if I can't reduce the rear, maybe increasing the front would be the same thing?

[Steve]

Sway bars would be my first adjustment. The choice of which bar to change depends on how much change you want.

A small change would be stiffening the front bar. With the high spring rate in front you don't use as much wheel travel in roll as with the stock springs so the bar change will not be as noticeable as it would be on a stock-spring car... may be just enough.

Or, leave the front bar alone and disconnect the rear: this will be a greater change than stiffening the front.

A big change would be to do both. From what you've described I think this would be more than you need and would result in too much understeer.

See what happens and then we can decide where to go from there: there are still several options after that. We also have the option of going back to 9kg rear springs...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think all that is needed is a small tweak. I'm sure the springs are just fine. Found a set of corner scales today and should be able to get to them in the next week or so. I think balancing the car should come first and then tweaking the minor oversteer would come after that. I love the JICs just where they are. Changes will be made to other parts first. Any changes to the JICs will be if all else fails. Arroyo Seco was the first time EVER that I got to hit the end of a straight, slam the brakes and not have nose dive. Besides, I put 4500 miles on them in a week on 'under construction' roads and they were still comfortable.