JIC Magic is here!

[Steve]

I'm happy to announce that Gearhead's Garage is the newest JIC Magic suspension products dealer! The first few sets arrive this week.

Here's what's available for the NA models (http://www.jic-magic.com/SearchProducts.aspx?CarMakeID=5&CarModelID=21)
and here's what's available for the NB (http://www.jic-magic.com/SearchProducts.aspx?CarMakeID=5&CarModelID=22)

We're new to this product line so we're going to be experimenting and gathering data with an assortment of spring rates. The first set to go out is a 12/9 FLT-A2 combination for Tom's car. We're also going to be testing a set of the A2's on our shop NA with a variety of spring rates. This car is a combination auto-x/street cruiser so at first we'll be going the opposite direction of Tom's setup. Both cars are going to initially run JIC's off-the-shelf valving, but one of JIC's advantages is they can re-tune their products to work with any spring rate. Another plus is their service facility is local for us so any specialty work can be easily handled.

I'll post more JIC news and updates here as they happen. Feel free to post here or contact me directly with any questions.

Thank you,
Steve

[Dr Evol]

I need a set of these coilovers bad!!! Can you pm me with costs on a set with springs around the 10/7 rate. I want the car to ride well on fairly bad roads here in Ohio as well as autocross. I have the FFS at 210 HP.

Chip

[Steve]

Dr, you've got mail.

To give everyone an idea of the differences, there are the basics on the two Miata-specific kits:

The FLT-A2 is the top of the line: Single-tube design and 15-way adjustability. These retail for $1900
The FLT-A1 is a twin-tube design with 10-way adjustability. These retail for $1360.

Both series come with threaded lower mounts, allowing independent adjustment of ride height and spring preload!

A wide range of alternate spring rates are available: if chosen during the initial order an alternate rate is only $100 per set.

[Dr Evol]

Thanks for the info Steve!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No chance to drive them as yet but they sure look pretty on my 99. Soon I will give you my feelings on 12/10 on the street.

[Steve]

Here's the latest news on JIC's for the Miata... The standard NA/NB kit rates will now ship as 9kg/mm front, 7 rear (in English, that's 506Lb/in front, 393 rear.) This is more in line with the stock F:R spring rate ratio, so they will be more in line with off-the-shelf swaybars.

Also, JIC just had a $100 per set price increase last month. I ordered some sets ahead of the increase so while these last I can still offer the old prices.

Steve

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I forgot about this old thread. I promised to give my opinion of the 12/10 on the street.

AWESOME

:p

[J_Man]

Hey Steve,

9 front / 7 rear is way too stiff in the back (or soft in the front). For good handling you have to soften the back by about 2 kg and remove the rear swaybar.

9/7 is only good for a drifting Miata and not for driving quick at the track our autocross. 12 front / 10 rear will be even worse - the car will be horrible in corners and you won't be able to put the power down at all

If you want help, we'll discuss setups next time. Are you coming to the November event?

J

Here's the latest news on JIC's for the Miata... The standard NA/NB kit rates will now ship as 9kg/mm front, 7 rear (in English, that's 506Lb/in front, 393 rear.) This is more in line with the stock F:R spring rate ratio, so they will be more in line with off-the-shelf swaybars.

Also, JIC just had a $100 per set price increase last month. I ordered some sets ahead of the increase so while these last I can still offer the old prices.

Steve

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Steve didn't pick those numbers, JIC did. They handle just swell. Save up and take one of the driving schools (like Bondurant) and you will be able to handle a car with good suspension too.

[J_Man]

Tom, then just the JIC folks he talked to didn't know much about Miatas ...
No need for me to go to Bondurant - I've been to good schools many times & I can handle quite well any Miata (regardless of its setup), in competition too. I was just talking about Steve's setup and how to make his car quicker around corners (vs being setup more towards drifting) - he started going to some competition events with his Miata lately, but I see he doesn't have much experience with its setup and what matters at these events setup-wise is quicker time vs the clock. I will talk to him the next time I see him (probably later this month).

Steve didn't pick those numbers, JIC did. They handle just swell. Save up and take one of the driving schools (like Bondurant) and you will be able to handle a car with good suspension too.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ah. Well, that was my mistake then as well. I thought the guys at JIC knew their product. Do us all a favor and call them and straighten them out.

[J_Man]

Ah. Well, that was my mistake then as well. I thought the guys at JIC knew their product. Do us all a favor and call them and straighten them out.

JIC know their product. The never raced Miatas at big races for years though, neither have put a Miata on a shaker rig or anything like that. They offer a street setup which is fun because it is easy to kick the tail out and good with the latest drifting trends among kids. There are also different goals when setting a Miata. I can guarantee you, that you won't win any national level race with a 12/10 setup in a Miata. The titles are won by a lot different setups.

[Steve]

Tom, then just the JIC folks he talked to didn't know much about Miatas ...
No need for me to go to Bondurant - I've been to good schools many times & I can handle quite well any Miata (regardless of its setup), in competition too. I was just talking about Steve's setup and how to make his car quicker around corners (vs being setup more towards drifting) - he started going to some competition events with his Miata lately, but I see he doesn't have much experience with its setup and what matters at these events setup-wise is quicker time vs the clock. I will talk to him the next time I see him (probably later this month).


Hi Julian,

What you've seen on my car earlier this year isn't the JIC setup... in fact, quite the opposite: since I was running STS2 the car was still on relatively hard tires so I had a very softly-sprung setup which worked quite well with them. Now that I've made the move to SM I'll be on R-comps (and double the horsepower) so the package is completely different.

I know we've just met recently, so you have no idea about my background. To give you a brief view, I've been racing for over 30 years and have 15 years doing vehicle development for one of the Big Two automakers, with about 4 of those working with the chassis tuning departments. I've been a performance driving instructor for almost 15 years as well. I started working on racecars when I was 12 years old. I'll never say I know it all, but I do know a thing or two. I've only been autocrossing the Miata recently, but back in the 90's I was competitive (won my class frequently) in a F-stock 5.0 Mustang and a few events in a 1LE Camaro.

JIC's take on Miata tuning is based on their experience in Japan: our needs here in the US are a bit different. Initially JIC sold the Miata kits with 9/8 springs, which has too much rear bias. I gave them my feedback (as I'm sure the other Miata vendors did too) so they changed to the 7 spring in the rear to correct that problem.

Is a 9 front spring too stiff? The answer is... it depends. For a street-oriented car on street tires I say yes: I would recommend a softer combination. For a race-tired, big-braked track car you may need to be even higher than 9. Driving style, vehicle usage, track conditions, the rest of you car's setup, and personal preference all play a role, so I would never say there's only one right spring rate for everyone. As for my personal situation, I'm running 8/6 springs.

Next year should be fun... with me in SM2 and you running CSM we'll have something to compare.

Steve

[J_Man]

Hi Steve,

You've definetely been playing with cars more than me! :)

These numbers I've been talking about are not something I've just generated myself. I have a couple of friends around - one who was recently few times national champion in his Miata, and another one who is at the top national levels too (IIRC his Miata just won the ProSolo national title this year). In the past I've been running similar front/rear ratios to yours. But those two guys made me change my mind after I tried what they've achieved after many years of Miata suspension testing.

The Miata works very well with a very stiff front, and soft rear. Even with very stiff front it doesn't understeer bad, it still rotates good mid-corner but the big benefit is you can put the power down on corner exit.

And you'll need that corner exit stick in rear since the Miata is such a tire limited car even in stock form. When you double the power it's even worse.

I am not saying 9 kg front is too stiff, I am saying that your front / rear rates are too close.
I am currently running about 10kg in front with a very stiff front swaybar, in the rear I am running about 6kg and the rear swaybar is removed.

This year I was running SM2, I am not sure about next though. Maybe I will jump to CSM since looks like all the other supercharged Miatas in our region went there. It is more fun in CSM with more real street cars. In SM2 there are a couple trailered nationally competetive cars and no way in the world an SM2 Miata can catch them unless you strip it to the max the rules allow (which will turn it into a trailer queen) and you still have the impossible task (fender rules restriction) to mount tires to match the 335 wide V710 rubber those cars are running ...