Timing Card Question

[Race Grandpa I]

Questions on the FFS Timing Card

1) How does everyone like it?

2) After it is set up how much adjustment is necessary at later dates?

3) How is it hooked into the "system."

4) How does it take to do the install and adjust with ? dyno runs?


:tank:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Question #1 I'll leave for others to answer but I love mine. :)

2) It iis real simple. If ping occurs between 2200 and 4000 RPM, you retard timing in the green zone. Between 4000 and 5500, the yellow zone and between 5500 and 7000, the red zone. There are 8 lights and each light is 1* retard. The card ships with 1.5* in yellow and 2.5* in red. That satifies almost all of the situations.

3) 6 wires to connect. Pretty simple/easy.

4) You don't need a dyno to adjust. It is done by ear. Unless you get some bad gas, once it is set, it is forget.

[Race Grandpa I]

SOLD I would like to get no later than August 11th.

You can send me an email on the low low price, how to get the $ to you, etc.

paul_hutt@yahoo.com

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Paul,

I am on vacation out East (Detroit then Cleveland). I wont be back until the 11th. Sorry. They list for $300 but $225 to Coldside kit owners. I can ship it when I get back if that is OK?

[Race Grandpa I]

Paul,

I am on vacation out East (Detroit then Cleveland). I wont be back until the 11th. Sorry. They list for $300 but $225 to Coldside kit owners. I can ship it when I get back if that is OK?

Tom,

Who in the HECK gave you permission to go on vacation. :taz:

What happened to your late night assistant. :troll:


Contact me when you get back and we will take care of the details.

Thanks


PS: The problem with the internet and cell phones is that you are never really sure where that person on the other side is at. :devil:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Paul,

Joplin Missouri at the moment. :)

My assistant is there and could ship the card but I have the programmer and it is clueless how to function until I program it. I don't program until I ship so they always have the latest software. If it didn't need to actually work, he could ship it tomorrow. :) I never leave home without my laptop and the programmer is in my laptop case.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

PS: The problem with the internet and cell phones is that you are never really sure where that person on the other side is at. :devil:

Maybe it won't matter eventually. I mean if all the I/O can eventually be done through the internet then the human location wouldn't matter? Actually, at that point, the human existence doesn't have to be physical anymore. :biggrin:

The Matrix LOLOL

[ThomS]

I Love The Timing Card...........................................

[Race Grandpa I]

Paul,

Joplin Missouri at the moment. :)

My assistant is there and could ship the card but I have the programmer and it is clueless how to function until I program it. I don't program until I ship so they always have the latest software. If it didn't need to actually work, he could ship it tomorrow. :) I never leave home without my laptop and the programmer is in my laptop case.

Tom,

The shop was able to move back my appointment by trading times with another person. So if you can get it to me by 10pm on Wednesday the 13th that will be great.

:cheers2:

Glad you were able to take a vacation.

Paul

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Of the various piggyback timing retard devices I have tried, I have to say the PC TC works the best for me.

The long answer is that in the past I used a Split Sec map based timing retard function that would pull timing as a function of both boost psi and engine rpm. Basically, it would linearly increase from 0 deg retard at 0psi to whatever rate you set it to. I varied it a bit with engine rpm but kept it pretty simple.... it would pull no timing for example at 1000rpm and would linearly increase from about 1500 to 3000rpm and then stay constant from 3500rpm and higher (wasn't really constant though because boost would change.... however, I made a refinement there were it "capped" off at a certain max value so I suddenly wouldn't see an increase in timing retard at really high engine rpm where the boost psi jumps up a bit... didn't want to unnecessarily lose rwhp up top). When I first installed the PC TC, I sort of half listened to the "experts" over at M.net and reprogrammed the PC TC so that it would also linearly pull timing as a function of boost. Seemed to work reasonably well this way. However, with further testing I determined that it was a lot more potent, in that I could pull a LOT less timing, by using it the way Tom originally had it programmed. That is, where the timing retard is simply a constant amount, regardless of boost, and it just changes for the three rpm zones. With this method, for some reason I am not 100% sure, it seems to stop detonation in its tracks with only a degree or two of timing retard. 4 deg is PLENTY of retard and even with this setting you don't feel the transition from 0 to 1psi when it goes from 0 to 4 deg timing retard. I guess with the Split Sec map I could have achieved the same thing, however I like the simplicity of the PC TC in that you don't need to hook up a laptop every time.

On other cars, I have also tested and tuned the J&S, Bipes (pre '99 only) and fixed methods of timing retard on my car (moving the CAS to have the timing altered all the time a certain degree). They all worked, but the PC TC works a lot better. The J&S had a simple timing retard vs. boost psi linear slope you could adjust, but no rpm function (which I think is more important). Thus you would end up pulling too much timing. The J&S however, is really more of a safety net. It's purpose is to reactively retard timing when it hears knock with its knock sensor. To me, that is fine, but really is something there as a "safeguard" (as it is called :biggrin:) and I think just making up for either a design fault or unexpected condition (bad tank of gas). The Bipes worked better than the J&S in that it had a lot more functionality in how you were pulling the timing, but again it still suffered from pulling too much timing. The CAS adjustment I tried on mine worked worse than either of them in that you pulled too much timing all the time... even when not in boost. Made the engine feel sort of half dead.

Oh, and btw, the CAS adjustment is something that you can't do on the '01+ anyway.

Bill

[BlackStripes]

2) It iis real simple. If ping occurs between 2200 and 4000 RPM, you retard timing in the green zone. Between 4000 and 5500, the yellow zone and between 5500 and 7000, the red zone. There are 8 lights and each light is 1* retard. The card ships with 1.5* in yellow and 2.5* in red. That satifies almost all of the situations.

3) 6 wires to connect. Pretty simple/easy.


I keep forgetting to call you...

2)The timing is retarded only when boost, right? Somehow i thought that was sine sort of degrees per lb of boost.

3) 6 wires to my current PC Pro?

Can you ship the card with a different setup? :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

2) Timing is only retarded under boost. We stopped doing the */lb boost as it costs hp/tq unnecessarily.

3) 6 wires to connect to the PC-Pro harness.

I can change it. What do you have in mind?


I keep forgetting to call you...

2)The timing is retarded only when boost, right? Somehow i thought that was sine sort of degrees per lb of boost.

3) 6 wires to my current PC Pro?

Can you ship the card with a different setup? :)

[BlackStripes]

damn, sorry i didnt update my email address..

Anyway, i called you a couple of min. ago.... i guess you were sleeping :-P

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sleep? What is sleep? :)

I never sleep. I'm in Montana and was tied up in an engineering meeting and just couldn't take the call. Sorry. I will call you back ASAP.

[maggie]

2) Timing is only retarded under boost. We stopped doing the */lb boost as it costs hp/tq unnecessarily.

3) 6 wires to connect to the PC-Pro harness.

I can change it. What do you have in mind?

Tom, I have one of the original timing cards that shipped. I am still in plug and play mode from my install and at 164 hp. Before I go back to the dyno and start adjusting the PC PROs I wondered if the timing card is the low HP culprit.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

When did your kit ship?

If you press the mode button, it should show Green, Yellow, Red and no more adjustments. Does it show anything else like Green/Blue, Yellow/Blue or Red/Blue?

[maggie]

My kit shipped April 2007. The timing card shipped a few months later as one of the first test units. When I press the timing card mode button I get number one light flashing yellow (orange?)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, each time you press the mode button, it should advance to a new color in the order Green, Yellow, Red, Green/Blue, Yellow/Blue or Red/Blue. Keep pressing the MODE button and let me know if you get any combinations with a blue light in the far right light (8).

[maggie]

Number eight is flashing blue and then numbers two and three flashing red.

[maggie]

Started pushing buttons on the cards to familiarize myself with them before I go to the dyno. In reference to the blue light- i get green first, yellow, red and then a flashing green1 blue8. Is this what is supposed to be showing on the card? :confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Depends on how old it is. Originally, we had the Green, Yellow and Red for the three RPM zones and the Green/Blue for the Degrees per PSI. We dropped the Degree per PSI as it is the wrong approach. Just leaave Green/Blue at 0 and use the others.

[maggie]

Thanks Tom. I had one of the first ten cards shipped and just needed to make sure. I'll keep the green/blue as it is.