JRPC-Pro

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it is assembled and installed. The production units will ship with a lot shorter and cleaner wires but I wanted it out from under the dash so I could play with it.

Runs great out of the box. I have the 05 a lot leaner now. In the realm of 11.5/12:1. A lot more uniform A/F across the band and less fuel from the PC and more cooling fuel from the SS. One thing at a time. :) Now that I have it operational, I will add the O2 circuit into play tomorrow (105F in the shade here today and I am ready for a swim) and the 5th injector circuit on Monday (eliminate the SS).

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/Moss/JRPC-PRO-PNP.jpg

[99mx5]

That is a sweet setup Tom! Plug and play and no more multiple modules and no loss of configuration (with programming device). Looks like the instructions will have to be revised. BTW, have you determined the sweet spot for the amount of fuel for E-Cool?

[elerner]

Looks like a lot more connections than for the current JRPC/SS combo. What do all dem wires do? :D

[Ronin]

It is a plug-n-play cable so that you do not have to solder any wires. Much easier than PC/SS AIC.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Haven't found the sweet spot yet but I know where it's at. It is when the 5th injector keeps the temperature from rising and the JRPC-Pro makes up the difference to make 11-12:1 A/F (pre-cat).

Well, there are 16 wires and, so far, I use all but 2. Actually, all but 4 but I will cure that Monday when I dump the SS. :lol: 8 wires for the injector and 2 wires for the O2 and 12VDC/GND takes 2 more, then 2 for the 5th injector. And the last two are for something real special if I can make it work. That will be later in the year. Maybe a Christmas present? More helpful for the S2000 coldside than the Miata.

[99mx5]

Sounds like PWM control? V-Tec fun anyone?

[elerner]

It is a plug-n-play cable so that you do not have to solder any wires. Much easier than PC/SS AIC.

Don't reckon so. That's an Autosport wiring patch harness in the picture. That's what I used to save my back (and my ass). We'll still have to heat up the old soldering iron :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It will ship from me pre-wired to that harness. All the buyer will do is plug it in. Only wires you will connect will be the two to run out to the e-cool injector and I will have two wires sticking out waiting to be connected.

[socal pat]

Very nice! So, any idea as to what you will charge us guys who have the PC/SS to join the club? Also, can we custom order a fuel map to match the size pulley we'd like to run?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think I can make one map that meets all pulley sizes. Time will tell. The key is to get the 5th injector set first for proper cooling and then trim with the main injectors.

I haven't developed any pricing but I will make it as cheap as possible for a swap for the prior customers, whether JRPC or ELF with the SS. Probably under $300.

[chuckerants]

JRPC (or ELF) + SS + $300 for the JRPC Pro? Does this include the programming module? :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No. Nice try. :)

[chuckerants]

lol

I had to ask.

Seriously, with the ELF being such a disappointment and other "solutions" like the eManage being so much more complex, the JRPC Pro sounds like the sweet spot of engine management.

At least I'll know someone with the programming module. AND he has a pool! :lol:

[Ronin]

Tom: OK, how much for a new kit with JRPC Pro instead of PC/SS?

And then how much more for the programming module since I am not subject to CARB?

Given the stage you are at with testing, can you release the full details of what is adjustable, 2d vs 3d maps, cell sizes, other features, etc., etc.? I would really like to go with this solution if I like the functionality and programmability, but otherwise would use the Hydra.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

New things I have learned.

1. '05 is smoother now that fuel can be removed from the main injectors and added to the 5th injector.

2. PC Pro self calibrates atmospheric pressure everytime you start to correct for altitude. :)

3. O2 "clamp" is really cool. Instead of clamping to a preset voltage, it generates the equivalent stoich sawtooth the ECU expects to see so it thinks it is stoich or whatever you want it think it is as it is adjustable as to the upper and lower peaks. :) Are these guys smart or what! :)

Ronin,

The kit price will stay the same. I have no idea of availability or price on the programmer. The kit will not include the programmer for a couple reasons. First is CARB and second is price. I really want to hold the $3700 DELIVERED price. With the new device and the added cost of the cable harness and pre-wiring, that isn't going to be easy but I intend to do it.

Programming is easier than filling cells. You set a start pressure, end pressure, start fuel and end fuel and it sets the slope of the curve. So far it does quite well. For non-CARB people, I can enable the front panel buttons and you can massage a couple of the controls and still not need the programmer. O2 clamp, fuel start/end and e-cool fuel start/end, etc. When I set the basics, the buttons are quite cversatile.

Hope that helps. I will know more and post updates as I play with it more. I am really trying to learn it inside and out and am taking my time and doing one thing at a time.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it works like a champ. We still have a problem with the 5th injector software and it should be worked out soon. With the SS running the 5th and the PC-Pro running the rest, the 05 runs like never before. Totally seamless. I will dyno Friday. More then. Not even a hint of VVT on/off. There is just no feel of the VVT change. The dyno will tell Friday but you just don't feel anything.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, I think the new PC-Pro will be such an asset to the earlier cars as well, that I have decided we will replace them as well at no cost to you. Major improvement is the transition from vacuum to boost. With the new version of O2 clamp, it is totally seamless.

[Dr Evol]

Do you deliver to Ohio? :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If I had more I would bring them along. I did recieve the wire harnesses today. One piece of the puzzle.

I will supply the 01-05s first, then the 99/00s and then the 94-97s. Kind of the order of need.

[Dr Evol]

Sounds great Tom!

If I understand the new Pro Card correctly, this addition to the supercharger system will offer the additional flexibility needed to make my ecu mod (clock speed) work even better? Will we now be able to control the fuel rate to all the injectors? Any idea of the total amount (in percentage) of control we will have over the four stock injectors?

Don't try to answer these questions on your PDA as you cross the country! Two hands on the wheel, eyes on the road :D

On another note. You where correct, the ecu does not see the timing changes made by the JR BTC. I tested it yesterday and it works great! Just what I needed for track days. I may advance my base timing a little to take better advantage of the system.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

yep. you are correct. t e pro will allow you to take the injectors to 100%. the pc is limited to about 75%. there are chips for the pc that up the limit to ~85% and 90%. i am bringing them for you to try.

[Dr Evol]

Sweet! Now get those hands on the wheel and eyes on the road.

[chuckerants]

Can the JRPC control timing retard?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No timing retard.

[carlb]

Did you make it to the dyno?

Well, it works like a champ. We still have a problem with the 5th injector software and it should be worked out soon. With the SS running the 5th and the PC-Pro running the rest, the 05 runs like never before. Totally seamless. I will dyno Friday. More then. Not even a hint of VVT on/off. There is just no feel of the VVT change. The dyno will tell Friday but you just don't feel anything.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Didn't really have time to mess with it at the dyno. I will before we head to CARB testing but will wait for the next hardware version of the PC-Pro first. Should have it this week.

[chuckerants]

So any updates on when the PC Pro will be in stock? :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I just sent off another email. I'll let you know what I find out.

[elerner]

Tom, you sure you didn't direct mystery movies in a previous life? All this anticipation is killing me :D :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

OK. Two of the revised PC-Pros are on their way to me and I should have them Monday at the latest. I will replace the one in the 05 and install the other in the 99. I will try for dyno time next week for both cars if all goes well.

Maybe I'll send the one I take out of the 05 to you (Evan) to play with? It does have a problem at start (10-90 seconds) and throws a CEL but, after that, it is a blast. Let me know. Install is seconds.

[chuckerants]

Ah man. :(

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If it would plug into a 99, I would let you try it. After I get through testing on my 99, we can pull that one and plug it into your hotside for tests. BUT I get it back and I have your address in my GPS. :)

I will need the data for the hotside as it now appears my 200WHP kit should be ready for shipping the first of October. They are slated to wrap it up the end of this month. They WILL ship with the PC-Pro.

[chuckerants]

Awwww, but Toooommmmm! <pouts and stomps on the ground emoticon>

If it would plug into a 99, I would let you try it. After I get through testing on my 99, we can pull that one and plug it into your hotside for tests. BUT I get it back and I have your address in my GPS. :)

I will need the data for the hotside as it now appears my 200WHP kit should be ready for shipping the first of October. They are slated to wrap it up the end of this month. They WILL ship with the PC-Pro.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just pleaded my 'need to test a hotside' case with Mike. Maybe I'll get a spare. ;)

[chuckerants]

Just pleaded my 'need to test a hotside' case with Mike. Maybe I'll get a spare. ;)

Did you tell him you had a customer that was threatening to hold his breath til he got one? :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I told him that I had about 30 customers holding their breath. ;)

[Serpico]

make that 31 please....

I've kind of lost faith in gremlins...I mean elves. :wink:

[chuckerants]

make that 31 please....

I've kind of lost faith in gremlins...I mean elves. :wink:

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[cmetzner]

Is there a way to get on a waiting list to number 32?

Are you going to have the PC Pro tuned to your BTB? I have the stock throttle body. It would seem that my PC Pro would need a different fuel map to accomodate my reduced air flow.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck, for my CS and HS kits for California owners that need CARB, they will be pre-set and non-adjustable. For the rest of you, they will go out with really good adjustability. The PC-Pro is really versatile. The digital adjustments make it real easy to set too.

There is no list but I will try to get as many as they will let me have. However, I will not order and/or ship any until I am done with the testing.

[socal pat]

I hope we poor Califonians will get a non-programable unit that will be able to drive a 120mm on 91oct. Maybe we can "custom" order our cards?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It would be just dumb luck if I could pull that trick out of the bag. ;)

[ThomS]

Tom, you sure you didn't direct mystery movies in a previous life? All this anticipation is killing me :D :D

HE directed something I know that for sure

[ThomS]

Just pleaded my 'need to test a hotside' case with Mike. Maybe I'll get a spare. ;)

Did you tell him you had a customer that was threatening to hold his breath til he got one? :D
Chuck you really wouldn't hold your breath would you? :lol: I can't wait to get it installed but little affraid to touch what is now a perfect running machine.

[chuckerants]

My kit came with the JRPC and it never really ran very well. Then I upgraded to the ELF which improved things, but now I'm back to using a PC while I wait for the PC Pro.

The PC still makes my car drives like crap. :(

Am I turning blue yet? ;)

Just pleaded my 'need to test a hotside' case with Mike. Maybe I'll get a spare. ;)

Did you tell him you had a customer that was threatening to hold his breath til he got one? :D
Chuck you really wouldn't hold your breath would you? :lol: I can't wait to get it installed but little affraid to touch what is now a perfect running machine.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Your problem is that you keep adding things but don't adjust the fuel to compensate. I keep trying to tell you the 150mm pulley is just too big for the JRPC.

[chuckerants]

But Tom, that pulley was just calling my name. :D

Your problem is that you keep adding things but don't adjust the fuel to compensate. I keep trying to tell you the 150mm pulley is just too big for the JRPC.

[Swingwing]

Is the PC-Pro available to the general public yet? Any idea of the cost for just the standalone PC-Pro to, say, replace a different fuel card?
Lucien

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They will be available to replace other cards on other systems. Chuck 'volunteered' his hotside for testing.

I don't have final pricing yet so I can't say. As soon as pricing is available, I will post it.

[chuckerants]

There's no rest for the FFS "Test Monkey" it seems. :)

They will be available to replace other cards on other systems. Chuck 'volunteered' his hotside for testing.

I don't have final pricing yet so I can't say. As soon as pricing is available, I will post it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You better be nice to me. I just got TWO PC-Pros in the mail today. They are the new version with the hardware fixed. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck,

This is what yours WOULD have looked like. :)

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Install/99-00-PC-Pro.jpg

[99mx5]

Wow, looks nice. I noticed that some (if not all) of the connections are spliced in and not tapping into the harness.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. O2 and injectors are spliced with an in and out.

[chuckerants]

Great job you did on my, uh, great job. :D

Chuck,

This is what yours WOULD have looked like. :)

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Install/99-00-PC-Pro.jpg

[Swingwing]

So, with the PC-Pro, you actually cut the injector wires? If I'm not mistaken, both the ELF and PC just "tap" the injector wires. Is there some major difference in how the PC-Pro adds fuel?

[sinuous]

I think what you see in the picture above replaces your current ECU
plugs, so that it is just plug and play?

Tom. any estimate when us 01+ folk will get to try it out?

Jared.

[Swingwing]

That is a PC-Pro isn't it? It has a few more wires than the one pictured on the Powercard website: http://www.powercardtuning.com/products/powercardpro/index.aspx.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Swingwing, The PC-Pro is a totally different module. It has a high speed processor and handles the injectors completely differentlt. It also has a properly designed O2 clamp that gives the ECU what it wants.

Jared, It is totally PNP. Takes about 30 seconds to install and you are running. As soon as I finish testing and dyno runs (sometime next week) and it passes the Tom Test, I will see how fast I can get some. probably another couple weeks. This version will not handle the 5th injector but that is OK as the SS does that part now very well. This is the version I will be supplying current customers. I will switch when we have the next version but there will be no operational difference, just a cost saving for me.

Swingwing, Yes it is the Pro. It has 16 wires of which we currently use 12 and will be using 14.

Off to meet up with Chuck and see if I can tease him with it. :)

[Banshee]

So when can I get my hands on one? No need for the 5th injector control here.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

let's see if I can say it well. :) My 99 10AE. Arizona heat. AC frull blast. Redline in 2nd and 3rd and, oh yeah, 91 octane. Oops. Almost forgot 115mm pulley. :)

A little more tuning to do but I think I'm in love.

[chuckerants]

I'm very impressed as well Tom. As we drove off after installing the PC Pro in Tom's 99, I listened for any pinging, but dammit if there just wasn't any.

There just wasn't any tip-in ping at ALL with the AC on FULL BLAST!!!

I gotta have one now.

And thanks again for your help today.

let's see if I can say it well. :) My 99 10AE. Arizona heat. AC frull blast. Redline in 2nd and 3rd and, oh yeah, 91 octane. Oops. Almost forgot 115mm pulley. :)

A little more tuning to do but I think I'm in love.

[sinuous]

Well if it doesn't control the 5th injector then we will still have to tap into
the plug and play unit for the SS?
Jared...2001 coldside

Jared, It is totally PNP. Takes about 30 seconds to install and you are running. As soon as I finish testing and dyno runs (sometime next week) and it passes the Tom Test, I will see how fast I can get some. probably another couple weeks. This version will not handle the 5th injector but that is OK as the SS does that part now very well. This is the version I will be supplying current customers.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If you already have the SS, you just leave it alone. I think the map will change a bit. Will know more by the end of the week.

The 99 runs like it is on race fuel instead of 91..Same with the 05.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, they will be a bit longer than expected. The hardware fix for the startup problem still doesn't work perfectly. Way better but it doesn't pass the "Tom" test. After the first 90 seconds or so, it works just fine. I'll have more data in a day or so. However, I will not ship any until they are perfect.

I have a little more dyno time tomorrow (couldn't stay today). I'll post the results tomorrow. Chip, I'm making you a 150mm pulley to go with yours. ;)

[Dr Evol]

Sounds good to me!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

25 pounds of boost? :)

[Dr Evol]

Now you're talking! I will need that back burner item to make it stay together :shock:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

LOL. Then you wont get it this year. :)

I am concentrating on front burner stuff this year. I would love to just finish CARB and the hotside.

[Dr Evol]

I guess I can live with the 120 pulley until then :twisted:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Or do this. :) The SS will drive two injectors. One for lots of fuel and one for cooling. Probably make 250WHP that way. I have a couple of the BTBA's with the extra port laying around.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Tom-99-engine.jpg

[Banshee]

Why not both for cooling?

[Dr Evol]

Tom, How the hell did you get out of your blue car? The silver car is a little too close. I've seen you, I know you or I couldn't do it. :lol:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Banshee,

The one pre-blower spends more of it's precious energy capacity trying to cool the blower and heat the fuel. After does a better job of cooling the charge. However, if I was going to add a load of fuel (for 25PSI boost, for example :)), I would add the bulk of it pre-blower (more homogenous there) and a little post blower to try and cool the charge.

Chip,

:( I resemble that remark. :(

[chuckerants]

Tom, How the hell did you get out of your blue car? The silver car is a little too close. I've seen you, I know you or I couldn't do it. :lol:

Hmm. I don't remember parking that close. :?:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not yours. :) All three of those are coldsides. Nice try though but you don't get into the club that easy. ;)

[Banshee]

Not yours. :) All three of those are coldsides. Nice try though but you don't get into the club that easy. ;)

Hell, I got a coldside and I can't get into the "club."

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You are now. :)

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Banshee

Official Club Member
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

And they say I don't have a sense of humor. ;)

[Wayne-n-Fla]

And they say I don't have a sense of humor. ;)

Wayne-n-Fla

Standby Shill
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Must come from being up at 02:20 :lol:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It's like naming a new child I will get special titles for each of you as time goes on. ;)

They are all meant in good humor. If anybody gets offended with theirs, let me know and I'll undo it.

[ThomS]

What club? :(

So I understand When the PC-PRO gets installed I will still have the SS in. Just making sure

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The coldside club. You are already a member and even have a 'special' title.

[ThomS]

[quote="Tom @ Fast Forward"]The coldside club.

I knew that!!! Just testing.. YEP I DID....

[Banshee]

Not that it matters, but shouldn't the "company car" carry the company logo, instead of the competition?

Yup, I still have the "other guys" logo on the auto tensioner, but thats because I got a bastardize kit.

So Tom, when will the PC-Pro be available to "official club members?"

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Wait till we get CARB and engrave the new tensioner brackets and I'll offer then up for as low a cost as I can.

I am waiting for direction from the engineering people as to where we go next on the "90 second" problem. It is all that stands between us having product and not. I really don't care if the addition of the 5th injector takes a couple months or not as I still have SS in stock and the operation is absolutely the same. Only advantage to the Pro doing it is to bring my costs back into line and offset the cost of the wiring harness. Yesterday they gave me some things to try and I will try to do that today before I take off to go play at Arroyo Seco in NM.

[Dr Evol]

Tom,

Your turn to provide a video of the Arroyo Seco fun.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I had my camera installed the last time. This time I'll turn it on. :)

I will have a passenger each time out (slows me down a bit), Kathleen (my wife), Hans (my son), Cecile (his wife), Art (friend). Last time I had my 11 year old grandson with me so I was even a bit more cautious on the track. My Cecile is the most fun as a passenger. She is from the Philipines and fast is 45MPH. I hauled her down the 1/4 mile a few times and she had a blast at 100MPH. Taking her through the turns should elicit some loud shreiks. Besides, she is only 95# soaking wet so she is not too much load. I hauled Kathleen through the GAP in 2002 and she had a blast. She described it as a sideways roller coaster. :)

[Banshee]

Wait till we get CARB and engrave the new tensioner brackets and I'll offer then up for as low a cost as I can.

I am waiting for direction from the engineering people as to where we go next on the "90 second" problem. It is all that stands between us having product and not. I really don't care if the addition of the 5th injector takes a couple months or not as I still have SS in stock and the operation is absolutely the same. Only advantage to the Pro doing it is to bring my costs back into line and offset the cost of the wiring harness. Yesterday they gave me some things to try and I will try to do that today before I take off to go play at Arroyo Seco in NM.

I was referring to the bracket that's on you 99.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

LOL. That's an old picture. :) Trust me, the company car does not have that logo anywhere.

[chuckerants]

LOL. That's an old picture. :) Trust me, the company car does not have that logo anywhere.

:lol:

This reminds me of the guy that FINALLY received his BRP R4 kit after 6 months and right after filing charges with the South Carolina Attorney General. He wanted to have either F**K or SUCKS engraved on his blower before install.

[99mx5]

I have an empty seat too :) ...and lots of sideways experience ;)

[99mx5]

He put it up for sale as soon as he got his kit I believe. I remember a for sale thread and Brant agreeing to transfer the warranty to the buyer.


Chuck, when you gonna race with us?

[chuckerants]

He put it up for sale as soon as he got his kit I believe. I remember a for sale thread and Brant agreeing to transfer the warranty to the buyer.


Chuck, when you gonna race with us?

He had ZERO interest and decided to install it.

I just gave my used set of 6 point Willans to Tom as it doesn't look like I'll be joining you guys any time soon.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

And I didn't have time to install them yet. :(

[Banshee]

Tom,

I really need a PC-PRO. Any idea when and how much for us (Me) faithful Early adopters (Test monkies)?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

OK. Here's the latest info. I will have 30 of them in here week after next. I will put together kits for the 01-05 FFS coldsides and get them out first. Then the 99-00 FFS coldsides. Then they are open for public sale. Looks like it will be around $300. The FFS version will go out pre-wired to a harness for plug and play. The $300 version will not. You can either buy your own harness or I will supply it wired for an additional $200.

Specs:

It has auto altitude correction that really works. Tested at sealevel, 1400 feet and 7000 feet.
It will not run the 5th injector at this time. You will still need a second device like the SS or a second PC-Pro. All future kits will get two PC-Pros.
There will be a new version in early 2007 that will have all of the PC-Pro features plus 5th injector control and possibly even timing control. All in one package.
We dropped O2 control as we found, as other users of O2 clamps and control have found, that it has side effects that make it the wrong way to go. We have developed an alternative approach that is way better and the versions we will ship in two weeks will have the new method of control. All I can say is that it works great and has none of the side effects of O2 or IAT messing around. It will be part of our CARB system.
Those PC-Pros not shipped to California FFS customers will have the low end and high end fuel customer adjustable. For the CA FFS customers, it will be fixed but is calibrated to be CARB legal when we get our EO#.

I'll post more when I think of it. All I can say is that the 05 never ran so good. :) I especially like the ability to drive up to 7000 feet and not have it go way rich as previous systems did.

01-05 guys please send me your current address by PM (Got yours Evan. You are first on the list). 99-00 customers please do the same.

[Banshee]

Tom,

I take it that the couple of really early adopters will be getting the "Public" price?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You have a PM.

[Kyp J]

So.....am I a FFS or a BRP? How much and when can I get one?

[chuckerants]

Hmmm, PC pro. :D

[Dr Evol]

150 pulley, here I come!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

So.....am I a FFS or a BRP? How much and when can I get one?

Check your PMs.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Another feature.

The PC-Pro is 'load based'. It automatically compensates for the difference in load. For example, it knows the difference between a WOT run from 2000RPM to 7000RPM in second gear vs. a WOT run from 2000RPM to 7000RPM in 5th gear and corrects the fuel accordingly.

[Banshee]

What wires are required to hook up the PC-pro? 4-inj wire, power and ground, and what else?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We use 12 of the 16 wires. 8 for the injector wires (4 in and 4 out), power, ground and 2 control wires.

[Kyp J]

We use 12 of the 16 wires. 8 for the injector wires (4 in and 4 out), power, ground and 2 control wires.

So unless you want to cut the injector wires, you have to get the harness, right?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. That's why I will be shipping new kits with the harness.

[elerner]

Yep. That's why I will be shipping new kits with the harness.

Tom, could you solder in 3 leads needed for the SS? That way we'd just need to crimp in some disconnects and go.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Thanks for the idea. Consider it done.

[Kyp J]

Re the SS: I have had the thought that I wanted to disable the SS to compare A/F ratios with it off, then on. It was too difficult at the time to find the right wire to disconnect. Do you see any value in that process? If so, would removing 12V from it accomplish that?

[chuckerants]

Re the SS: I have had the thought that I wanted to disable the SS to compare A/F ratios with it off, then on. It was too difficult at the time to find the right wire to disconnect. Do you see any value in that process? If so, would removing 12V from it accomplish that?

Why not just unplug the 5th injector plug?

[Kyp J]

'Cause I like doing things the most difficult way possible. Maybe I'll try that.:-?

[Banshee]

What are the "two control wire?" Since my ecu harness is already shredded to hell with the ELF and J&S, I may just buy the JC-pro without the harness.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It's like the four injector wires. Just one more wire to cut in the harness and re-connect to two wires in the PC-Pro. The 12V and GND just tap the same wires as the PC.

[Kyp J]

What does the PC-Pro have for connections if the harness isn't used? Does it have a bunch of dangling wires to solder to or only a plug or socket.

[Banshee]

Tom,

Do you have a A/F graph for the 05 using only the pc-pro and no 5th injector?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Kyp, 16 dangling wires. You will have to cut 5 of the ECU harness wires and tie the 10 ends to 10 of the PC-Pro wires.

Banshee, I never ran it on the dyno with no 5th injector. It was really good but had some ping from 6000-7000. With the 5th back in under control of the second PC-Pro, that is gone. No real difference between te PC-Pto and the SS for controlling the 5th injector except the PC-Pro can be adjusted easier and on the fly. The results, however, are basically the same.

[Kyp J]

If you are cutting the injector wires and insertiing the PC in series, the wire has to remain connected to a specific injector, right? Not that it is a problem but I still don't quite understand a single injector being timed for 4 different intake times (5th injector). I just want to make sure it is different than the spark which happens at the end of the exhaust stroke when it doesn't matter.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The second PC Pro that runs the 5th injector is timed to the stock injectors and pulses fuel in sync with them. 2 fuel pulses per revolution. I believe the SS does the same but I know the Pro does.

[Banshee]

Tom,

I'm just curious about how flat the A/F is with just the pc-pro without the fifth injector as that is what I run.

If you look at my a/f graph using the elf, its not exactly flat.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It should be pretty flat when I'm done. Then I'll ship to non-Californians with the adjustment for fuel that will allow you to raise or lower the curve. I can also set it for you to be able to tilt the curve to level it yourself or make it richer low and leaner high or leaner low and richer high. Doesn't really need to be too rich in the area below 5PSI..

[Banshee]

can you fix that a/f ratio?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

can you fix that a/f ratio?

Fix it? As in make it better fixed or as in non-adjustable fixed?

Please elucidate.

[Banshee]

Fix it? As in make it better fixed or as in non-adjustable fixed?

Please elucidate.

As in making it flatter than what I have now.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No problem.

[Banshee]

Will the PC-pro mess with timing at all?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There is no timing control in this version. So far, we have not needed timing control for the coldsides. My 05 is stock timing. Correct fuel control is the key. There has been some discussion of timing control in the next version coming next year sometime. It could be a year away yet.

[Swingwing]

Tom,
What's involved in upgrading to the "next version?" Is it a software update the user can upload, or would we need to buy a new chip/PC-Pro?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The next version that will be out sometime next year will be new hardware encompassing more memory and a more powerful chip. However, the operation will be identical to the two board system I am now using.

[Banshee]

Do you have a picture of the vacuum tubing connection on the PC-pro? Is it flimsy like the original PC?

[Banshee]

Tom,

Can you explain to me how the adjustment on the PC-pro works? Is a base map loaded at FFS? Can I adjust one part of rpm range or can I only shift the entire graph up or down? Also is there any problems with lean tip in or overly rich low rpm conditions?

You mentioned a while ago that there was also a "pluggin" tuning cable, are those available for purchase or rent?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The PC-Pro uses the stiff tubing all the way. No surgical tubing. Those that I send out pre-wired to the harness will have the tubing attached and ty-wrapped into the harness so it has no place to go.

The (non-CARB) units I will be shipping will go out with what I have tested as being very close. You will have adjustability of the low end and high end of the slope so you can raise and lower the curve as well as alter the slope of the curve.

I will not be selling the programming module. I am not sure if Moss will be selling it? If they do, I have no idea what the price will be.

[SME]

Tom, I already have one. Is PC Pro available without?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The PC-Pro will be $300 without the harness. $500 PnP.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

A picture is worth 1000 words. :)

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/PC-Pro.jpg

[99mx5]

Tom, dont forget to tie your shoe. I'd hate for you to fall down and get hurt before programming all those PC-Pros ;)

[elerner]

Mmmmmm. Just in time for Chanukah!!! Now I get to run to my mailbox every day!

[Kyp J]

There is a good spot to post the link in another forum where people are holding their breath waiting for a fueling solution. I don't know if it would be appropriate so will leave that up to Ch...... ooops, don't want to be too suggestive.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Kyp, LOL. No shills here. ;) Besides, I don't think the XXX forum would appreciate it. :biggrin:

Evan, I promise yours goes out first.

[Banshee]

Don't post it on the "other forum" I'm trying to sell my ELF.

[Dr Evol]

Is there another miata forum? :biggrin:

[chuckerants]

There is a good spot to post the link in another forum where people are holding their breath waiting for a fueling solution. I don't know if it would be appropriate so will leave that up to Ch...... ooops, don't want to be too suggestive.

Hmm. I wonder who you mean? :D

[kompressorz]

There is nothing wrong by posting it!!!!!!! it is availbale and works, then why not let people knows it. Every body knows that the ELF is not working and an alternative is a JR powercard. I have been well served by my JR powercard and I feel good about it.

[Banshee]

Tom,

When adjusting the PC pro, does moving the light to the right create richer or leaner conditions?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Moving to the right is richer.

[Banshee]

What size is that boost tubing on the PC-Pro? How do you connect it to a boost source? 1/8 compression fitting is too small, and 3/16 is too large. What do you suggest?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Should be the same size as what you have coming back to your present fuel controller? OD is 4mm. ID is 2.5 mm. What is on you car already?

[Banshee]

I'm using the 1/8 fuel line and also the standard hard plastic line (also 1/8 outer diameter) hard plastic line typical for boost gauges.

I think I still have a quick connect for a 4mm somewhere. Will this be good enough, or will it cause an air leak?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I use the quick connects and never had a problem with leaks. You could also use a short piece of 1/8" rubber hose. A little spit will get the hard tube to go inside the 1/8" rubber.

[elerner]

I use the quick connects and never had a problem with leaks. You could also use a short piece of 1/8" rubber hose. A little spit will get the hard tube to go inside the 1/8" rubber.

What kind of a "quick" connect are you talking about for these hoses? Can you post a link to a picture of one?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They are made by Legris. I think you can get them at atuo parts stores? You push the tube in and it locks. How are you connecting the tube now? In my 99, I simply used a piece of 1/8" rubber tube and pushed the PC-Rpo tube in it. The tube that came from the manifold also fit in it. The fitting on the PC-Pro is the same size as the old PC. How did you have that connected? Yiou could always remove the tube I supplied and use the same connection as the old PC.

[cmetzner]

The connection on my JRPC was a collection of connections: rubber tubing from the manifold; smaller hard line pushed through the firewall; the JRPC small flex tube fit over the hard line.

I always thought that I would have problems with but never did.

Tom - so the PC Pro that is being shipped will be plug and play? No adjusting of maps, etc? I have reviewed the instructions online and hope I do not need to adjust in the various ranges and then retest.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck

Well, it plugs in and runs but it may require some adjusting. The kits I build and ship as base kits will be plug it in and drive. BRP hotsides come in all flavors. It will probably need some adjusting. Do you have an A/F gauge?

[cmetzner]

No gauge here.

My kit is different than the one/ones you sell. I have a 115mm pulley and a stock throttle body. You may remember that I also have two extra injectors in the DTB that are controlled by the Split Second computer. So, I am able to add fuel.

My approach in the past has always been to listen for ping and wing it. I have never dynoed the car. Looks like I will need to do that with the new computer.

I have always been told that I will need to find someone who knows how to tune with water injection (which I have).

Hmm - I wonder if gearheads garage can help me since they are about 20mins away?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think it will be real close when you plug it in. You will need to trim.

[Kyp J]

Re. instructions for Pro: The link for the 5-7K range doesn't seem to work so I am guessing the "value" lights in that range show red instead of green or yellow and otherwise are the same?

I keep posing questions about the range adjustments and deleting them. I probably should just take your word for what is happening, but I keep trying to figure out what is happening compared to the previous adjustments. It probably isn't what it seems superficially.:confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I just figured out that the first units that went out were programmed to show injector duty cycle rather than RPM. Sorry about that. You will only see green and yellow because the injector duty cycle doesn't go that high. They still work correctly. Only the operating display is different. Green does effect fuel up to 2800. Yellow 2800 to 5000 and Red 5000 to 7500.

If you want, pop it out and overnight it to me and I will reset the program and overnight it back.

[Kyp J]

Are you saying the display during adjustment won't show the red or just when running under boost on those units programmed for duty cycle?

Assuming I would send it back for reprogramming, what do you mean "pop it out"? Do you mean to take the case off and pop out a chip or pop the whole thing out of the car?

If we are popping out chips, is there an indication on the chip what variation of programming it might have?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

When running under boost it will display injector duty cycle, not RPM. Everything else is fine.

You would need to pop out the whole thing. The case is sealed and doesn't come apart. No removable chips.

Are you saying the display during adjustment won't show the red or just when running under boost on those units programmed for duty cycle?

Assuming I would send it back for reprogramming, what do you mean "pop it out"? Do you mean to take the case off and pop out a chip or pop the whole thing out of the car?

If we are popping out chips, is there an indication on the chip what variation of programming it might have?

[Kyp J]

In that case I won't send it back. It is easier to see the tach than look under the dash to see the RPMs. The only thing I care about is what lights up while adjusting it, that is still as described in the adjustment instructions, correct?

Once I get it installed, it will be a b*tch to "POP" out since it will be soldered directly into the car's harness.

And to re ask the original question, in the dead link, do the LEDs showing the adjustment value show red as you adjust them for the highest range?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Correct. When making the adjustments, the lights still function correctly as des ribed in the instructions forum.

To add fuel from 5000 up, press the mode button until you get the red LED. Press the up arrow to add fuel, down arrow to lower. The Red LED will move to the right when adding fuel and to the left when removing fuel. Not to be confused with the Red/Blue adjustment where you have a red LED that moves with a blue flashing LED on the right.

As thhe instructions say, there are 5 different adjustments. Green, Yellow, Red, Yellow/Blue and Red/Blue.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Those FFS customers that are getting the free PC-Pro on harness upgrade please return the JRPC when you can. Thanks.

[Dr Evol]

Thanks Tom, I can't wait to try the new PC -Pro!!!!

I'll send back the JRPC asap.

[Silverstreak02]

Tom

How long are the wires on the PC Pro? I'm planning to mount it in my glovebox with my new AEM wideband.

Jeff

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Jeff,

They are about 14" long. It really needs to be close to the ECU. What I do is mount it to a harness that makes it plug into the ECU and then run it up into the fuse box and store it there. When I want to change, I open the fuse box cover, it drops down, I adjust it and put it back and close the cover.

[elerner]

To steal a phrase from a 14 year old's daily dialogue: OH MY GOD!

The PC-Pro is a godsend to any 01-05 Miata. My car is now driving like a dream. No more rough transition from off-boost to on-boost, no more bogging at low RPMs under load. It's just smoooooooooooooth!! I installed it at noon today and my stone cold car started right up and settled into it's usual idle. Too bad I've got my squirelly snow tires on the car now.

Thanks for all the hard work you've put into the Pro Tom. It definitely shows!

:) :) :) :)

[Silverstreak02]

Tom

Thanks for the wire measurement and suggestion on mounting. I never even thought to put it there. I'm trying to keep everthing out of sight and the fuse box definitely does that.

Since it's been out for a couple of weeks I'm surprised there aren't more reviews. Come on guys make me jeolous.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, all of the 99-05 FFS customers have been shipped a free PC-Pro on a harness. Evan was the first to receive one and installed it today. When he called me to tell me how well it was running, he was so excited he was almost stammering. :) That pretty well sums it up.

The rest should be speaking up soon. The second half went out last Friday so they will be arriving in the next day or so. There were a couple sent to non-FFS customers as well. Today, we shipped the first 97 version. Ken will let us know how it does next week.

But, for a first review, I'm happy with Evan's. Plug it in and run awesome. What else could ask for? :) The PC-Pro makes the 01-05 run perfectly correcting for the VVT.

[chuckerants]

I've been using the PC Pro for a while now and it blows the JRPC, and the Gremlin, uh ELF otta the water. :)

[Kyp J]

I wish I could comment on the PC Pro but I am stuck on non car projects. At least a week or more before I can get to the car. I can hardly wait; but I have to since I don't have room to work on the car. :hammer: (Picture of me working on the shed)

[mike@moss]

Well, all of the 99-05 FFS customers have been shipped a free PC-Pro on a harness. Evan was the first to receive one and installed it today. When he called me to tell me how well it was running, he was so excited he was almost stammering. :) That pretty well sums it up.

The rest should be speaking up soon. The second half went out last Friday so they will be arriving in the next day or so. There were a couple sent to non-FFS customers as well. Today, we shipped the first 97 version. Ken will let us know how it does next week.

But, for a first review, I'm happy with Evan's. Plug it in and run awesome. What else could ask for? :) The PC-Pro makes the 01-05 run perfectly correcting for the VVT.

Hi All,

It has been a long road with the Powercard. This adventure started more than 3 years ago. There has been a tremendous amount of R&D hours and $$$ to get this product where it is today.

We at Moss are thankful for the fantastic group of forced induction Miata enthusiasts, it was a natural move to introduce the PC Pro to all of you first.

My hat goes off to the great guys at Dobeck Performance and our in house engineers. The collaboration required to get this product off the ground has been "significant".

Finally though, you all really have to give a huge thanks to Tom. He has been relentless in his pursuit of taking the Powercard Pro and navigating his way through all of the features and capabilities to come up with tune ups that will truly set the PC Pro equipped Miata's apart from the rest. Tom, I truly thank you for all of your hard work. We would not be where we are today without your efforts.

Mike Chaput

[Red Lightning]

Our PC-Pro is in and works great. Transition what transition? I'd say for "sleeper's" like Susan and I who sneak in and out of boost below 4,000 rpm the PC-pro enhancement is amazing. Power in the 2-4,000 rpm range is certainly more robust. :) Yay Tom!

Thx Lyle & Susan
FSS customer #1

[socal pat]

Mine's in and the car starts right up. Unfortunatly the hard spaghetti line that came with the kit initially won't fit the nice Y fitting on the PC-Pro. I'll stop by the autoparts store ASAP and pick up some thicker stuff.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Should I add a couple pieces of the hard black tube to the Y for you guys to use to adapt? Let me know what is the better/best way and I'll add it to the kit.

[socal pat]

Should I add a couple pieces of the hard black tube to the Y for you guys to use to adapt? Let me know what is the better/best way and I'll add it to the kit.

I think that a a couple of 4-6 inch pieces would be a great addition. Depending on the way their kit was initially installed that would cover the bases.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Done. Next ones I ship I will add a couple short pieces. Thanks

[cmetzner]

Yes Tom, I think that you should add the pieces of tube. I have several extra pieces of 4mm hard tubing for my water injection kit, so I did not have a problem making the connection.

Where did you get that Y connection? I need just a splice connection to connect your tubing to my existing line.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I buy those by the box. You could always take that one off (just press the ring and pull) and use it and then use a short piece of 1/8 or 3/16 rubber vacuum line to couple the two hoses together at the PC-Pro.

[bogey]

Today, we shipped the first 96 version. Ken will let us know how it does next week.

I can't wait to get it and see if it solves the power transition and rich condition I have. It is due in on Monday the 18th according to UPS.

Not sure how much chance I will have to play with it because I will be travelling over the holidays. But I should be able to get it connected and let you know first impressions.

KEN

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

After you test it there, you could always plug it into that hotside 97 and let us know if it makes a difference too. ;)

[bogey]

That sounds like a possiblity...

[cmetzner]

I installed the PC Pro in 20 minutes.

I have not given it much testing. I am cautious of these things as I know that they are not given the testing of an OEM part.

Wow, much smoother in transition than the ELF + o2 clamp!! The car seems brighter on acceleration. The next 2 days will tell if it stays this way as the ECU is reset during the install.

What a breeze to install. Took longer to remove the old stuff.

I intend to have gearheads garage fine tune the thing but honestly, the car feels like stock in transition and acceleration so I do not what they would tune.

One test for me is to drive in too high a gear up a long hill on my way home from work. This usually resulted in some stumble on the way up the hill and severe idle dip at the top if stopped at the light. I got none of that behavior with the PC Pro.

Next, I am going to run it up to the mountains.

Thanks for doing all of this. This seems to be a great fueling solution. Hope you sell a ton of these.

Why couldn't BR have done something like this?

I was not compensated for this endorsement.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

woohoo. A 99 hotside added to the list. :) Don't ya just love plug-n-play.

[J_Man]

Why couldn't BR have done something like this?

I don't know. IMO they should just drop the ELF and instead switch to the PC Pro or even better the upcoming AEM F/IC which is much beyond the PC Pro. No way they can make the ELF as good as the AEM F/IC (and they don't have the AEM experience with making ECUs either) and the retail prices of the two being very close.

BRP should just make a plug & play Miata harness for the AEM box and just throw the other outdated piggybacks away and they will have a clear winner. Why are they still trying to fix an already outdated box is strange ...

[dazooom]

[QUOTE
BRP should just make a plug & play Miata harness for the AEM box and just throw the other outdated piggybacks away and they will have a clear winner. Why are they still trying to fix an already outdated box is strange ...[/QUOTE]

A clear winner? Not if your looking for big HP! And that's the difference between CS and HS. And they don't do CS, anymore.

It seems that BRP/SOP has trouble with boxes! Yup, boxes.. The AA/IC, is sort of a box, so is the ELF, and that little, black box, they use for fueling, on their, base HS kit....

Hell, I've been waiting for over 7 months for BRP/SOP to send me an AA/IC, that works with my setup, that BRP installed. And the ELF? I certainly agree it needs replacing. But also, there's those NEW,greener pastures...ie the NC and S2000. And that's all, NEW money! And the ELF appears to be working on the NC.. You know, bullet proof results! hahaha Where did I hear THAT, before?

Brant said last NOV 14, oh no, not the last one, but, Nov 14, 2005...When he posted the thread..."BRP's revolutionary new, emissions legal fueling solution"....lol....."Think of it as a Powercard/Voodoo Box on steroids. For those that don't want to touch their kits, it will perform just like a faster, more responsive Powercard". And the next day..."The release of this fueling solution has been the major holdup on our CARB testing...." hahaha Yea, Right!

The GOOD thing....there's other vendors, that have fuel management that works, and AA/IC's that work....

[dazooom]

Oh! SOT has attacked the "box" problem! I just checked out their kits....They got rid of that...little black box on their base kits that WAS used for fueling. The've updated their kits...Sadly though, it was replaced with the ......ELF. (Just a little more testing, n we'll get that sucker right, yet). I'm hoping, hoping, hopin.......before NEXT NOV 14th!

Looks like the PC PRO is a simple solution.....

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Wayne,

If you don't have it resolved by the time you come out to visit on your way to California, I'll plug in a PC-Pro or two and I'll bet we can do a lot of WHP with your kit. Remember, with a couple boxes checked in the PC-Pro programmer, I can control fuel off boost as well as on boost. It would also run much larger injectors than stock plus we could easily run your extra injectors. There are a dozen added features in the PC-Pro I simply don't use as I don't need them for my kits. But they are there.

[dazooom]

Tom...I only have one additional injector...But, it will be interesting to swap out the ELF, with one of your PC PRO's! And if I need another to replace the S/S, so be it. And I'm sure you have more ideas to safely get.....the zip zip, back in my ZOOM ZOOM...I'm looking at late March, early April, for the trip out west! Can't wait!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Stock injectors too? Or are they bigger?

[dazooom]

They are stock.....

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Wow. A 250 WHP system on 4 stock injectors and a 5th. Hmm. I'd love to do that with the PC-Pro. Just scared to do it long distance. That's an '02, right?

[J_Man]

A clear winner? Not if your looking for big HP! And that's the difference between CS and HS.

I was talking just about the features the engine management piggybacks offer and not comparing supercharger kits / the merits of coldside and hotside and which is better for who. Just about the piggybacks. The ELF no matter how they tweak the software will never catch to the AEM F/IC features and I doubt the BRP will sell it for much less money than the AEM retail. The way I see these piggybacks is AEM F/IC > PC Pro > ELF. That's what I meant by winner - piggyback features winner - and not the kits

[dazooom]

OH! I read your post the wrong way, J Man...Sorry...I see what you meant, now....

[dazooom]

Tom, mines an 01...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Wayne, get in the car and drive out here. Stop by TDR and get a good A/A IC installed then come here and let's install the PC-Pro and cure those problems. Then you can return home with a fixed car.

[dazooom]

As the saying goes...."Sounds like a plan"! Right now, looking at the end of March, first part of April....Can't wait!

[Ronin]

Tom,
Is the second PC-Pro also capable of controlling other injectors (e.g., WI) or is it only for the 5th injector?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is only for the 5th injector. If you aren't using a 5th injector, you could use it for WI.

[f11]

[ Sorry, just lurking and had to respond... ]

Chuck, it sounds like your FI efforts have finally turned a corner for the better!! Congrats to you (and Tom) for hanging in there and working through the issues as Tom's PC-Pro fuel controller was tweaked and tested.

Tom, from what I've read today in the forum and in the instruction sets for your coldside product, I'd say you've got yourself a winner package. I like the way you include the small stuff (extra tubing, special tools, etc) and are willing to accept suggestions for small changes or other little things to your kits to make it as easy as possible for your customers. I HATED getting kits and upgrades that needed items that weren't supplied or inexplicably not included in the box.

Mike's comments make it obvious you've worked effectively with Moss to get this controller set up right for your market and they appreciate it.

But the icing on the cake is the highly positive comments I see coming from your customers who had "unsolveable" issues with components and kits supplied by other vendors. Well Done!!

Rod
(former '99 hotside dyno'd at 213rwhp - but it cost me a LOT more than US$3700!!)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Rod,

Thanks for the kudos.

If there is anything I can do to help let me know.

We still need to get the latest software changes into Chuck's PC-Pro. Now that he is working, he is no fun anymore. :)

[zoom2xtn]

WOW

I just read all 21 pages of this forum topic to get back in the loop. I haven't been on the forums in a while. Sounds great. I think I need Tom's PC-Pro card. Am I correct in my assumption that Moss makes the PC-Pro card in a generic version but Tom's version is special with Tom's proprietary fueling maps and a Tom-developed PnP wiring harness for supercharged Miatas?

Will Tom's PC-Pro card solve my idle droop which I think is caused by too much throttled volume due to the BTB for the "something" (mass air sensor, maybe)to recognize? I know nothing about engines except where to add gasoline.

I also read something about Tom having a new intake manifold in the works to reduce throttled volume. What is the status of that? Probably way more than I want to spend to solve the idle droop.

When will the next version of the PC-Pro card that controls the 5th injector be available? I have my 5th injector in a box somewhere -- BRP took it off when they added the BTB and replaced the 4 rib pulleys with the 6 rib pulleys which was about a year and a half ago and I've had idle droop ever since. They said I didn't need the 5th injector any more. I'd rather have one card that also controls a 5th injector than have a second card just to do it.

There was also mention of deleting the O2 sensor that was originally on the PC-Pro card and adding something that would be better. What is the status of this better something?

It's a long way (2020 miles, going the short route!)to Phoenix but would be a neat Miata drive in the spring as long as I had plenty of Blue Lizard Australian Suncream.

Lee

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Moss does make the card and the software I supply is what I developed during the CARB testing. The PnP harness is from AutoSport Wiring. I just buy them and pre-wire to the harness and then load the software.

It helps the idle but I'm not sure it cures it.

Moss has the new IM. It is the one destined for their new MP62 hotside that is about ready to launch. Chuck and I are testing it first thing in the morning.

No idea if/when the next generation PC-Pro will be out?

We don't use the O2 clamp. Just the TPS control circuit. The PC-Pro also has a circuit to eliminate the rear O2 CEL for those who have a high flow or no CAT.

Come and visit Memorial day weekend.

[zoom2xtn]

Thanks, Tom

I'm going to check the calendar and see if I can get away. I'm still working but taking a lot of time off--office closed Fridays and my wife Carla and I travel a lot while we are still able. We're trying to schedule China in October, and have a lot of short trips (Canada, Memphis, Nashville, Washington, Atlanta, New Orleans, etc.) planned throughout the year in addition to the runs, some of which are multi-day, of two Miata clubs so this may not be the year. I am scheduled to be at Doubletree Paradise Valley in January 2008 and November 2008 but that'a a long way off; well, maybe January 2008 is not so far removed from Memorial Day 2007. We'll see. I would like to visit and schedule some time at Mike's Place to get whatever I buy from you installed. Carla has already said she will not ride (she only rides - refuses to learn to shift gears -- yeah, PRHT with paddle shifters will solve that!)) the Miata to AZ but maybe one of my retired Miata buddies will come and help drive.

Lee

[happychap]

Why not go to Miatas in Moab III (http://www.utahmiataclub.com/miatasinmoab/index.htm) and stop and see Tom before or after the event

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Lee, I look forward to seeing you if you can make it. I'll even let you drool close to the Buffalo Bill. ;-)

[zoom2xtn]

Happychap

Sounds like fun but I still have to work and when I take off my overhead, including salaries for staff who have little to do after I'm gone a few days, just keeps on ticking away so it's like a double whammy when I'm gone too long.

My Miata buddy neighbor, who I'll ask to come with me, is on a trip right now but when he gets back I'll see if we can't work out a really long weekend at Memorial Day and get to Tom's.

I hope we can convince Tom to dress up in his Cowboy Action Shooting Society gear and show us how good he is with his Colt 45s! I suspect he's a perfectionist at that too and can shoot the hair off a gnat's butt.

Several folks from the Ridgerunner Miata Club, to which I belong, have been to Moab and I want to come someday but it won't be 2007. Thanks for ths invite, however.

Lee

[zoom2xtn]

Tom

I look forward to it. Hope I can work it out.

Lee

[zoom2xtn]

On 2/9/2007 Tom said:

Moss has the new IM. It is the one destined for their new MP62 hotside that is about ready to launch. Chuck and I are testing it first thing in the morning.

What were the test results?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Tom, correct me if I am wrong, but aren't talking about the new Outlet Manifold for the supercharger, not the intake manifold? Or, are you making a new intake manifold (the thing that bolts up to the engine intake ports :))?

Lee, I have the new supercharger outlet manifold on my engine. It actually has more throttled volume than the original one, however it is more efficient and I think this eclipses the small increase in throttled volume. They posted before and after test results with this new outlet manifold on the forum here and it amounted to 10hp and 1psi more boost at the same pulley ratio... that is a significant increase in efficiency.

As far as intake manifolds go, the only one I know that makes one for the MP62 hotside is Stage One Tuning. I put one on my Hotside and it made a very big improvement in driveability, throttle response and reduction in pinging issues. On an air/air IC'd hotside I think it is a key part of making the kit run right. On a non-intercooled or air/water IC'd hotside, though you can get away without one though as these versions don't have as much throttled volume to deal with. My experience has been that the air/air IC'd setups are the ones that really had the most problems with idle dip and drivability. However, some of that cause is also engine management I think. The PC Pro definitely helped my car considerably. With the state of the oil burning engine in my car right now, I don't think it would hardly drive, let alone make power, if I didn't have the PC Pro in there.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Bill,

Yep. My bad. I put an "I" where I should have put an "O". It is only the outlet manifold. I apologize for that. Probably typed that post on my PDA with that little stylus.

Lee, sorry, my error.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

LOL, well the I is right next to the O :).

Bill

[pumpkin]

Technically its not a manifold at all. It is a discharge or outlet adapter.
JD

[zoom2xtn]

Bill and Tom

Thanks for the info. I'm going to live with my idle droop a little longer. I don't want to buy 1 PCPro and then decide to put my 5th injector back on and need another PCPro. I think there will soon be one that can control the 4 plus the 5th for very little $$ more than the one that controls the 4.

Maybe I'll spring for BOTH a new INTAKE manifold and an MP62 DISCHARGE or OUTLET ADAPTER. I have no idea how much either costs or what the installation should run. I just want to get ZOOM 2X running smoothly with no droop. More power would be nice but at my age and driving skill (lack therof!) I don't need any more power, although it does feel good when you press the pedal and ZOOM 2X ZOOMS!

I, of course, do grow impatient and at times think "what the heck, lets get it all now." I just have too much going on right now to take time off to go somewhere to get the work done. It's 2020 miles to Phoenix!! I do plan to drive to New Orleans in November but I'll be in the Avalon, not the Miata. My wife, Carla, will be with me and she requires more luggage space than the Miata allows. Bill, we'll get together in November. Tom, I still think about Memorial Day but what a drive! 2020! We'll see. I want to visit and get some of your work -- or Mike's work under your supervision.

Lee

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Bill and Tom
I do plan to drive to New Orleans in November but I'll be in the Avalon, not the Miata. My wife, Carla, will be with me and she requires more luggage space than the Miata allows. Bill, we'll get together in November. Tom, I still think about Memorial Day but what a drive! 2020! We'll see. I want to visit and get some of your work -- or Mike's work under your supervision.

Lee
If your visit to N/O is just social, try for last weekend in Oct. // first weekend in Nov. Halloweenie, locals "dress up" like for "Fat Tuesday"

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Would you guys be interested in a hotside intake manifold if I made one? Maybe ~$750?

[Banshee]

I guess I can answer for Chuck:

YES Please....

[Wayne-n-Fla]

I guess I can answer for Chuck:

YES Please.... Chuck's going to have his "handle" changed to offical FFS HotSide test monkey" :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck's going to have his "handle" changed to offical FFS HotSide test monkey" :)

Good idea. Done. ;)

[zoom2xtn]

Wayne-N- Fla

I'll be attending the Annual Conference of the National Association of Estate Planners and Councils. www.naepc.org

We plan to drive in order to spend a couple of days in Birmingham on the way down to sightsee and then go to Memphis and Nashville on the way back to visit family.

Tom

Is that intake manifold $750 installed if I come to Phoenix for the installation?

How about free installation of all products (intake manifold, MP62 outlet adapter, PCPro, etc.) if purchaser drives over 2000 miles to get there?

I might just go for such a deal if I could get a buddy to help me drive out.

Bill

Yes, it sounds like I need an intake manifold, an outlet adapter and at least one, or maybe two, PcPros! Then I need suspension upgrades, Mazdaspeed motor mounts, HD clutch, etc.
Iit never ends, does it?!

Lee

[Banshee]

Would you guys be interested in a hotside intake manifold if I made one? Maybe ~$750?

Stupid question, idea.

Is the exhaust port the same size and bolt patterns as the intake port?

If so, could you simply bolt up one of the gazillion turbo manifold on the intake side and run a pipe to your supercharger? Would be much quicker and cheaper. Not to mention probably flow better than a rectangular unit.

[Serpico]

Would you guys be interested in a hotside intake manifold if I made one? Maybe ~$750?


I'd be interested in one, but honestly I would probably wait until there was a bit more evidence that it actually makes a big improvement. If memory serves me there are only about 4-5 guys with one. 2 of them have 01's and both of them are using the TDR intercoolers (which has even more throttled volume than the BRP one).

$750 is a big chunk of change and right now my car runs really well once it's fully warmed up.

My opinion my change when Summer temperatures return........

[dazooom]

I have the intake manifold, (HFI), that SOT is selling, for $995, on my 2001. It was included as part of the package, during my R4 install at BRP last summer. Since it was part of the initial install, I have no idea how it compares to having the stock manifold. I do know and have learned a couple of things since that install.

First off, with either a 130 or 140mm pulley, I DO get very little idle droop. At one time I hit the adjustments perfect, and had NO droop. And the droop when there, didn't matter which AA/IC I had installed, either a BRP or TDR. However, with a BRP AA/IC installed, I got pinging, big time, with the 140mm pulley. I have since replaced that AA/IC with a TRD AA/IC, and reduced the pulley to a 130mm pulley. However, my car has never pinged with a TDR AA/IC, with either pulley. So, the intake manifold could be the reason for no pinging on my setup. I have no timing control on my car, and at the time I had the 140mm pulley and TDR AA/IC installed, dynoed at 231.5/220. I think the intake manifold allows me to achieve those numbers without pulling timing. If one wants 225+ HP on a 2001+ Miata, with a MP62 H/S, without having to mess with timing, I think a redesigned intake manifold is something to think about. I've always ran 93 octane in my car.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Tom a HFI manifold for $750 (I assume cast?) would be ideal! Be sure to include a proper fitting for the EGR, which I am sure you will :). I left the EGR off the SOT HFI manifold on my setup because it doesn't fit well... the EGR pipe ends up coming really, really close to the #4 fuel injector and fuel rail. I figure preheating the fuel rail a few hundred deg couldn't be good so I left it off :). Ideally I think a HFI manifold should be made so that the EGR fitting is just like stock in terms of size and location.

As far as benefits, Dazooom, if you didn't have the HFI on your setup you would get ping with the 130 pulley and no timing retard... even with the TDR air/air IC. I know because with the 126 pulley on my '00 and also on a couple customer cars that were also '99-'00, and all of us running the TDR air/air IC, Powercard + Extra Injector, etc. I had to dial in a few deg of timing retard to stop ping on 93 octane. On an '01+ the ping threshold is sooner since it has 10:1 CR vs 9.5:1 CR for the '99-'00. Thus without the HFI, your car would probably experience pinging on anything much over a 115 pulley. The HFI makes that much of a difference.

On my own car, which became much more ping prone when it started consuming oil at a rate of 1 qt/500 miles, I saw a renewed ability to run without timing retard with the HFI manifold. I was needing 10 deg of timing retard, with a 126 pulley to stock ping. Once I installed the HFI manifold I found I could just barely get away without ping with the same pulley and no timing retard. That is a shift in the ping threshold of 10 deg!!! A/f was the same (I checked with my wideband) and no other changes were made other than installing the HFI manifold. I next added Tom's pulleys, so my belts would stop getting grooves cut into them, and decided to go with the 120 pulley to play it safe, and then added the PC Pro and things only got better :).

Bill

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Tom a HFI manifold for $750 (I assume cast?) would be ideal! Be sure to include a proper fitting for the EGR, which I am sure you will :). I left the EGR off the SOT HFI manifold on my setup because it doesn't fit well... the EGR pipe ends up coming really, really close to the #4 fuel injector and fuel rail. I figure preheating the fuel rail a few hundred deg couldn't be good so I left it off :). Ideally I think a HFI manifold should be made so that the EGR fitting is just like stock in terms of size and location.

As far as benefits, Dazooom, if you didn't have the HFI on your setup you would get ping with the 130 pulley and no timing retard... even with the TDR air/air IC. I know because with the 126 pulley on my '00 and also on a couple customer cars that were also '99-'00, and all of us running the TDR air/air IC, Powercard + Extra Injector, etc. I had to dial in a few deg of timing retard to stop ping on 93 octane. On an '01+ the ping threshold is sooner since it has 10:1 CR vs 9.5:1 CR for the '99-'00. Thus without the HFI, your car would probably experience pinging on anything much over a 115 pulley. The HFI makes that much of a difference.

On my own car, which became much more ping prone when it started consuming oil at a rate of 1 qt/500 miles, I saw a renewed ability to run without timing retard with the HFI manifold. I was needing 10 deg of timing retard, with a 126 pulley to stop ping with the stock intake manifold. Once I installed the HFI manifold I found I could just barely get away without ping with the same pulley and no timing retard. That is a shift in the ping threshold of 10 deg!!! A/f was the same (I checked with my wideband) and no other changes were made other than installing the HFI manifold. I next added Tom's pulleys, so my belts would stop getting grooves cut into them, and decided to go with the 120 pulley to play it safe, and then added the PC Pro and things only got better :).

Bill

Tom can you delete the previous post... I needed to edit it after the 2 minute time limit...

[FormerDatsun510Man]

One other thing, the pulley limits without timing retard were pretty amazing with the HFI manifold. On the '99 stock engined test car which we were consistently making 280rwhp run after another, using the HFI (then called the R4 manifold), we ran a pulley ratio as high as 150 crank pulley and 60 nose pulley. Boost went over 21psi!!! I was sort of shocked when there still wasn't ping on 93 octane and no timing retard. Interestingly, at that superhigh pulley ratio we found the limits of the blower (finally). The power dropped to around 270rwhp, though the torque went the highest we saw that day... it recall it being around 250ft-lb. Turned out that the pulley ratio for absolute max power output was the 150/65 ratio. That yielded around 17psi boost.

Fun stuff, but I wouldn't recommend these power levels on stock engines driving on the track.

Bill

[HotsideHamid]

Tom,
I would love having a new option for an intake manifold. The SOT manifold looks very sweet, but not only is it expensive, it's only made for M2's. I think if you made these manifolds for M1's, I bet you'll have many customers. The hotsiders still need an upgrade path, and so far you have been great at that. BTW, I'm buying an outlet manifold as soon as my wife says okay!

Bill,
I always thought that the MP62 blower had more headroom than 280 hp. I keep hearing around 325 hp is where it starts to run out of steam. Is it all about flow and efficiency at that point (more flow less boost) right? I must admit, I'm starting to like the efficiency thing. I put a check valve on my hotside setup today, and was totally surprised at the result! It pulls harder, and hits max boost a lot quicker. Me likey:drool5: .

-Hamid

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, I was thinking something like this. Beings as I have most of it already in stock. All I have to build is the one piece. It has the E-Cool already aimed in the rigt direction, WI aimed the right direction, poins for boost gauges or IM temp probe. EGR would simply tube down into the plate. The intake tube has not been located yet so this is concept but, what do you want for 15 minutes at SolidWorks? ;)

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Hotside/Hotside-IM.htm

[99mx5]

Great idea for parts reuse, seems like the option to convert to coldside is there too!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I forgot, it would fit either 94-97 or 99+ by swapping the manifold. Both of which are stock items.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Lets move the manifold thread here and let this go back to PC-Pro.

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?p=6304#post6304

[Scuba Steve]

I just installed the PcPro in my 2000 hotside. I had a fully functional elf, but did have idle droop with it.

After installing the PcPro, I took it out for a short drive (< 10 miles) all in town with a lot of stop and go. Car ran smooth with no audible knock. Best of all, I had NO IDLE DROOP during the drive.

I am feeling much better about installing the BTB when it arrives.

[zoom2xtn]

TOM

In a prior post you said:

Well, there are 16 wires and, so far, I use all but 2. Actually, all but 4 but I will cure that Monday when I dump the SS. :lol: 8 wires for the injector and 2 wires for the O2 and 12VDC/GND takes 2 more, then 2 for the 5th injector. And the last two are for something real special if I can make it work. That will be later in the year. Maybe a Christmas present? More helpful for the S2000 coldside than the Miata.

Are there instructions about hooking up all these wires and making the adjustments? What about the 2 for the 5th injector? I thought tcontrolling a 5th injector took a separate PCPro for control. What is status of the Christmas 2006 surprise dealing with the other 2 wires?

My PCPro will arrive today. I've been tracking it on UPS and after 38:03 of actual travel time from Casa Grande, CO to Johnson City, TN it is in town and should be at my house later today.

Lee

[zoom2xtn]

TOM

Another thing. I have a Split Second controller and a couple of extra injectors in my box of parts which were left over when I went to the BTB. Can I use one of those injectors as my 5th and control it with the SS? Are there any insructions on how to do this? Any pictures? I, of course, am not going to do it but I don't think the mechanic I'm going to use has ever done any supercharger work so I want to make it as easy and quick as possible. (His time is my money!)

Lee

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Boy, you really went back in history. If you kept reading forward, you would have found the post where I sadly mentioned that it didn't have the horsepower to run the 5th injector at the same time and required the second PC-Pro. :(

To use the SS, it has three wires and a pair for the injector. The wires are 12VDC, GND and tach. You can find those in the engine compartment or in the PC-Pro wiring harness. Let me know where you intend to mount it and I can tell you where to connect the wires.

The other two wires (well turns out I only needed one) can connect up to the harness and correct the problem of rear O2 sensors that set a CEL for cats that have been eliminated or gutted or converted to high flow. That has been available in every PC-Pro I shipped. I just don't connect it but you can if needed.


TOM

In a prior post you said:

Well, there are 16 wires and, so far, I use all but 2. Actually, all but 4 but I will cure that Monday when I dump the SS. :lol: 8 wires for the injector and 2 wires for the O2 and 12VDC/GND takes 2 more, then 2 for the 5th injector. And the last two are for something real special if I can make it work. That will be later in the year. Maybe a Christmas present? More helpful for the S2000 coldside than the Miata.

Are there instructions about hooking up all these wires and making the adjustments? What about the 2 for the 5th injector? I thought tcontrolling a 5th injector took a separate PCPro for control. What is status of the Christmas 2006 surprise dealing with the other 2 wires?

My PCPro will arrive today. I've been tracking it on UPS and after 38:03 of actual travel time from Casa Grande, CO to Johnson City, TN it is in town and should be at my house later today.

Lee