Datalogging (AFR vs RPM) questions

[Godless Commie]

I have the LC-1 wideband setup.

I would like record AFR vs RPM under different conditions.
(I'll be using LogWorks 3 and a laptop to accomplish this.)
As ar as I know, you have to purchase either the SSI-4, or the LMA-3 in order to convert the generated frequency signal into a usable voltage (0-5V) signal so it can be used with or in the LC-1.
The thing is, both of these components cost a bit.
Has anyone come up with an economic solution to obtain a voltage signal that could be used to datalog using the LC-1?
(I knw, I can just stick a camcorder in front of the gauges, too, but there's got to be a better way.)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

You should have a serial cable that allows you to connect to a laptop?

If I recall you use those two 2.5mm stereo connectors. You put a plug in the "in" one and you connect the "out" one to the serial cable going to the laptop. You then start Logworks and should be able to see it on the gauges in Logworks and also record it in Logworks.

I don't have mine anymore so I am going off of memory here.

They got the manual here: http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/support/manual/LC-1_Manual.pdf

I notice they also show on page 6 how to wire the analog outputs to a datalogger. I assume one of those data outputs you are sending to a gauge. I didn't try datalogging using this method though. Rather use what I described above which is shown on page 11 (section 5.3). It is a lot simpler just to do it that way and use Logworks.

Bill

[beatle]

Bill, I think he's trying to see how to log RPM and AFR at the same time. I haven't used Logworks, but from what I can see in the diagram that is just getting the AFR signal with no reference as to what the RPM is. I think the simple question is can you get the RPM signal to output over the LC-1's serial cable?

I'd also like to be able to do this as a deserted highway could then substitute for a dyno chart minus hp/tq numbers. :)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Ah, I see. Since the LC-1 does not have any RPM inputs I don't see how it could generate any outputs to go to Logworks. I think you need to get the tach signal wire from the stock ECU over to Logworks and the only "simple" way I know of is to use one of the aux boxes that Innovate sells. Or build your own... that is something I haven't attempted though.

I found that it is quite reasonable to simply do the runs in 3rd gear, from say 2000-7000rpm on a "test track" :) that is smooth and level. The acceleration is relatively constant enough in this speed and rpm range that you end up being able to substitute time for rpm and thus can get away without using the tach signal. In other words, just look at a datalog of AFR vs. time. You know that the time at the end of the run = 7000rpm and the time at the beginning is 2000rpm. Break up the time in equal segments and it is quite apparent. Besides, the way the PC Pro adjusts the AFR knowing the precise AFR at a particular rpm is not necessary. We are just looking at the shape of the curve, make one change, do another run, look at the shape of the curve... etc.

Btw, Matt, you aren't going to change any of the light settings now are you??? :nono: :boxing_smiley:

Bill

[beatle]

LOL, :no: the cards haven't moved from the passenger seat map pocket and will likely stay there until I pick up a 115mm pulley. I don't anticipate changing anything even then, but I'm all about data, especially if it means I can collect and monitor it myself.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

By all means collect data :). Since the cards add fuel linearly with boost I anticipate the fuel will be spot on with the 115 pulley and no changes. The only thing you might need to do is put in 2 deg of timing retard in the red and yellow zones. If you did something that increased the flow without raising the boost, like a freeflow header and exhaust, I would say you may need to raise the yellow-blue by a half a light... maybe.

Bill

[Godless Commie]

The problem with LC-1 is, it only accepts a voltage signal.
Tach signal, on the other hand, is a frequency.

This is a propreitary trick by Innovate to sell more gizmos to the Innovate customers. Their inputs can be used in almost any brand of monitoring/display gear, but only their outputs can be used as input in their stuff. Brutal.

Both the LMA-3 and SSI-4 can be used as a tach converter for the LC-1.
LMA-3 is a bit more expensive, but it has built in accelerometers that can be used to log G loadings and obtain calculated Hp Tq numbers, as well as a whole host of (up to 32 I think) sensor inputs to get incredibly confusing data...

I'll be happy to just log RPM vs AFR, nevertheless.
I might be able to do something with the tach gauge input, or splice into the tach gauge even. I am sure that frequency is being converted to voltage somewhere in there.

(Can't help but think back to my TR-6 days.. That thing had a mechanical cable for tach output/input. Used to sound like a dying duck on very cold days :) )

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Well, here is another idea. The two outputs are programmable on the LC-1. Now, one of those outputs you are presumably already using as input to your AF gauge. The second output you could use as a substitute for your narrowband O2 sensor. Program the second output so that 14.7 AF = .5v. Make it linear so that .9v = 12.5 AF (and thus .1v = 16.9 AF). Now, substitute this output wire for the O2 input into the factory ECU (cut and solder the wire at the patch cable). Next, you can use a OBDII datalogger to record your AF along with other parameters (rpm, vehicle speed, etc.). You would simply look at the O2 signal. Of course, you would be reading volts rather than AF, but it would still work.

Bill

[Godless Commie]

My NB is not OBDII Bill..

:(

I'll find a way.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Not ODBII??!? They started doing that for the U.S. cars back in '96 :biggrin:. Is it ODBI at least? That goes back to around 1990 if I recall...

Bill

[Godless Commie]

OBDII was not mandatory till 2001 in Europe.
I have a '99 with good old OBDI.

More on that later... (Pulling an all nighter to finish a project)

[rins]

Same here. '99 and ODB1.

Here ’01 model was the first MX-5 which came with odb2.
Bill you should know that by now ;)

[Godless Commie]

Same here. '99 and ODB1.

Here ’01 model was the first MX-5 which came with odb2.
Bill you should know that by now ;)

Rins,
What gas are you using, and what is your AFR please?

[rins]

98RON in normal everyday-driving and Shell V-Power (99.7RON) at track. AFR is pretty stable 12-11.5 except at 3800-4000rpm it peaks around 10.8:1 don’t really know why. I’ll change my pulley tomorrow and see if it goes away…

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The Y-B on the main card is set so that you see 11.5:1 or so at the richest point (usually around 4000rpm as you mention). Try lowering the Y-B. Increasing the R-B will shift the curve so it is richer at high rpm. Finally, increasing the E-Cool shifts the fuel also more towards higher rpm without impacting the low rpm as much. It is all in the balance of these three settings to get the smoothest AFR curve. One other thing, on the main card I found setting the G, Y, and R to 4,0,0 respectively seems to give the best results. The reason for this is I have found that I always need to add quite a bit of fuel in the low rpm range to get it even and that is impossible to do with other settings that build fuel with increasing boost (which on a supercharger also means with increasing rpm).

Bill

[Godless Commie]

Just found a used LMA-3. The guy is asking $150+shipping.
I'll post details once I get and install the thing.

[oldtimer02]

Probably a dum ? but can data logging be done with my AEM wide band? There is an extra wire that, I think may be for data logging.
If it is possible, what equipment is necessary? My set up uses the PC Pros.

[Godless Commie]

Took me forever to pay the guy and have him ship the thing - too many bills these days - but the LMA-3 just arrived today..

Has to be installed on a firm, flat surface.
Gotta find that "special place" first.