90-93 Coldside

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

With Bill on board, my life has changed..................for the better, of course. :) What this company needed was young blood. In any case, we now own a 1990. We went that route because it was the first model. We did find a cherry car. It is beautiful inside and out and under the hood, you could eat off the engine. None of the bugs, like crank issues, were ironed out yet by Mazda. We want to make it run and have it available for potential customers to drive and hammer on. Here are the basic specs we are going to have:

1) It will be EXACTLY the same as the 94-05 in design. Why change a great design?

2) It, like the big brother, will ADD 70-80 RWHP. The base kit will need to keep the 105/65 pulley ratio for CARB and 105/65 makes 70-80 on the 1.8L. There isn't a difference, is there? ;)

3) Like the 94-05, it WILL be CARB approved.

There will be more data as time unfolds and we will post the progress. Sorry, it wont have a fancy fuel rail with hoses running all over the place. It will be simply billet aluminum like the 94-05. I expect the design, developement and parts to take 3-4 weeks so it should be ready to drive before the end of the month.

[jon6.0]

Awesome! I spoke with you on the phone last week about the kit. I can't wait until you release it. Not gonna be able to get it until Xmas or tax time though. :(

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It will be finished in November but it will be mid-December before we have the parts. Should work just fine.

[jon6.0]

Please click one of the Quick Reply icons in the posts above to activate Quick Reply.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Je ne ce pas? I don't understand.

[jon6.0]

Darn it, lol. I pushed the wrong button on my Blackberry. What I meant to say was that the timing will be perfect. I can work on the suspension and hopefully get Megasquirt before I put the blower on.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Got it. ........

[wineguy]

Did I hear "1.6", "coldside", and "CARB" all in the same sentence?!?! :party:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes sir. It will have CARB one way or the other.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The CARB letter is on it's way. :grouphug:

[socal pat]

Someone will be kinda stumped at how you got 160whp and he only got 141 :rolleyes: but you won't have those nice welds to look at.

[socal pat]

OH, and if you intend to compete with Bell you'll need to be able to add meth, add octane, and add engine management. These are the "features" that Corky lists.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hopefully 170 WHP NON-INTERCOOLED for the CARB version. :)

[wineguy]

This is great news -- can't wait!

CARB + HP + 1990 = more smiles...
:yes: :drool5: :) :yes: :drool5: :yes: :) :drool5: :yes:

[ThomS]

Tom do you have any pictures of you 1990 yet ?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I am glad you asked. We went to Las Vegas Tuesday to pick up the 06 we 'won' ;). We ended up with a great picture.

Three red Miatas. On the left is the 06 with the Moss Coldside (More on that in the NC forum). On the right is the 1989 Miata that was used for the design/developement of the original Sebring M45 kit by Jackson, Dobeck and Garret. Sadly, it would take a full rebuild to put it back in shape. It has been sitting on stands for years in that driveway. Last, but far from least, is our 90 in the foreground.

[beatle]

Holy crap, Bill cut his hair! I guess the AZ heat is too much for all that coverage. :sweatdrop:

[socal pat]

Boy, you weren't kidding. That '90 is clean!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is up at Mike's getting some gauges added along with my XM radio. I miss my XM. The radio that was in was a great radio, BUT....

When I get it back, I will get pics of the under hood and interior. The under hood is, IMHO, almost unbelievable. Other than a little dust, it is real clean.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Dan,

If you are listening in, we will convert your hotside to the Coldside, if you would like, as soon as we confirm everything.

[ThomS]

Wow you are correct. very clean. which car do you like to drive the most,
the 99, 90 or 06 ?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Don't forget to throw in my 05 that I did all the CARB work on. I have had one of each version. To be fair and balanced, I loved every one of them. Each for it's own reason. The 05 was smooth as glass and quiet as snow but showed it's 195WHP when it slipped out to pass. 2450 pounds w/195WHP

The 06 is probably the most luxurious of all in interior layout and a pleasure to drive. It also is dead quiet. As the system uses the stock air box, it is even quiet at WOT. great for the person that wants luxury, power and stealth. I kind of miss the music of the blower whine. 2500 pounds w/ 186WHP (soon to be 225-250 :)).

The 99 was simply fast. 2400 pounds and 224WHP. Comfortable enough for me to go cross country non-stop. 2200 miles in 36 hours including food and gas stops and sleep(?).

Rapidly becoming my favorite is the 1990. At the moment it lacks more comfortable seats and seriously lacks power. At 2250 (?) pounds, it is definitely light. It is the most nimble of the Miatas and the power, or lack of same, will be cured in short order. :) We argue at times of what we think the base kit will bring but have concluded that it will safely make close to 175WHP with the 105/65 pulley and 91 octane non-intercooled. With that, I think it will rapidly become my favorite. Bill and I are discussing who gets to keep it when the testing is done. :) We have a 4.1 Torsen that will go in this week to help first gear and spread the upcoming wealth to two wheels instead of one. I figure it would be a loss of power to road to have the single tire spinning in third gear. LOL

Generally, I love them all. The 06 grows on you as power goes up. When we picked it up, someone had played with the buttons and it was around 170WHP and 125/130 torque. As soon as we put the settings back to the Moss defaults, it jumped to 186/190 and torque jumped to over 150. It is the torque that is everything. It is the light and nimble feel of the 90 that you lean to right away. I may even leave the suspension stock.

[Steve in VC]

Boy, you weren't kidding. That '90 is clean!
I was there when they popped the hood. It was show room clean in a 20 year old car. If there was any dust, I didn't see it....

[ThomS]

Don't forget to throw in my 05 that I did all the CARB work on. I have had one of each version. To be fair and balanced, I loved every one of them. Each for it's own reason. The 05 was smooth as glass and quiet as snow but showed it's 195WHP when it slipped out to pass. 2450 pounds w/195WHP

The 06 is probably the most luxurious of all in interior layout and a pleasure to drive. It also is dead quiet. As the system uses the stock air box, it is even quiet at WOT. great for the person that wants luxury, power and stealth. I kind of miss the music of the blower whine. 2500 pounds w/ 186WHP (soon to be 225-250 :)).

The 99 was simply fast. 2400 pounds and 224WHP. Comfortable enough for me to go cross country non-stop. 2200 miles in 36 hours including food and gas stops and sleep(?).

Rapidly becoming my favorite is the 1990. At the moment it lacks more comfortable seats and seriously lacks power. At 2250 (?) pounds, it is definitely light. It is the most nimble of the Miatas and the power, or lack of same, will be cured in short order. :) We argue at times of what we think the base kit will bring but have concluded that it will safely make close to 175WHP with the 105/65 pulley and 91 octane non-intercooled. With that, I think it will rapidly become my favorite. Bill and I are discussing who gets to keep it when the testing is done. :) We have a 4.1 Torsen that will go in this week to help first gear and spread the upcoming wealth to two wheels instead of one. I figure it would be a loss of power to road to have the single tire spinning in third gear. LOL

Generally, I love them all. The 06 grows on you as power goes up. When we picked it up, someone had played with the buttons and it was around 170WHP and 125/130 torque. As soon as we put the settings back to the Moss defaults, it jumped to 186/190 and torque jumped to over 150. It is the torque that is everything. It is the light and nimble feel of the 90 that you lean to right away. I may even leave the suspension stock.

Interesting, whats not to love ? But what is the Hp of the Stock 06 ?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

~140rwhp for a stock NC

Keep in mind that the NC coldside kit only makes about 6psi in standard form. Even so, I think it shows promise and I think we will have no problem getting over 200rwhp, even with stock exhaust and 91 octane. We will see of course :). I did find that the NC engine is quite a different animal when tuning. She likes a really rich mixture and doesn't suffer a power loss in doing so... I'm talking 10.5:1 at high rpm. I'm being extremely cautious with knock on this engine and before we do anything more with it I plan to get our full instrumentation on there so we can very carefully start increasing the power while watching for anything that shows a cylinder mixture imbalance or knock. Given the problems that even Cosworth has had, I know we need to be conservative.

As far as driving the NC, I find it basically a great BMW :biggrin:. They got rid of every shake and wiggle that was present in the NA and NB. All the little things work perfectly, cruise, A/C... really no fault I can see with the car and it is faster than the NA and NB in stock form. However, I find that I personally prefer the NA because of the basic fun factor. The NA and even the NB are no frills sportscars and after driving the NC they feel much more raw but in my miind, more fun. You are lower to the ground and feel everything, for better or worse.

I find I like the '90 the best, and I think I will really love it when it is properly supercharged. This particular example we have did 96rwhp, so she is a pretty strong one. Once the revs climb past 4000, the '90 is surprisingly peppy. With 175rwhp I think it is going to fly, and feel even faster.

The NC is sort of like a Corvette in the sense that it will have to be a lot faster than the NA to "feel" faster. That said it is a very stable car.

Bill

[Elphaba]

Dan,

If you are listening in, we will convert your hotside to the Coldside, if you would like, as soon as we confirm everything.
:sweatdrop: Im watching this; as long as I pick up a few hp I might go for it. Let me know when your going to the dyno, Id love to watch and see it "in the flesh" :drool5:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think you will be ready to change as soon as you drive it.


:sweatdrop: Im watching this; as long as I pick up a few hp I might go for it. Let me know when your going to the dyno, Id love to watch and see it "in the flesh" :drool5:

[Elphaba]

:sweatdrop: Can I drive it yet? :sweatdrop:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Close. I was looking at it assembled today. Needs a ninor adjustment and we will be ready shortly.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Dan,

What are you doing tomorrow or Saturday or Sunday? :party:

[Elphaba]

:ninja: Why...:ninja: Calling you now.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

To drive it, of course. :-)

[Elphaba]

:drool5: GIGEITY GIGEITY

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, we tried. Best we could do is just under double stock WHP. :) We will have data charts up later tonight but, in the meantime, turns out we were only slightly better than our competitors MP62 1.6L Coldside. They did 141WHP and all we could get was 171 on 91 octane, 176 on 93 octane and 181 on 95+ octane like they have in TX. On stock injectors, of course.

The kit will include:

MP62
Big Throttle Body
PC-Pro fuel management
PC-Pro controlled Ecool (5th injector)
High flow fuel rail
RPM/Boost timing control via PC-Pro Timing Card. ***
105/65 pulley as used above

*** Basically it is the same as the 1.8L kit with the Timing Card included. As we only need one PC-Pro to run the main fuel and ECool, we added the TC with the kit. Outside CA, it will be included at No Charge. Inside CA, it will be optional for $0000.00. :)

Now is the time, if you are really interested, to pull out your credit cards as we are now open for business and taking orders. We will be shipping in 3-4 weeks. As soon as we can get parts in here. Manifolds are already cast and just waiting for the last drawing changes.

Somebody said that it couldn't be done,
But, he with a chuckle replied
That "maybe it couldn't" but he would be one
Who wouldn't say so till he'd tried.

So he buckled right in with the trace of a grin
On his face. If he worried he hid it.
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, as he did it.

Somebody scoffed: "Oh, you'll never do that;
At least no one we know has done it";
But he took off his coat and he took off his hat,
And the first thing we knew he'd begun it.

With a lift of his chin and a bit of a grin,
Without any doubting or quiddit,
He started to sing as he tackled the thing
That couldn't be done, and he did it.

There are thousands to tell you it cannot be done,
There are thousands to prophesy failure;
There are thousands to point out to you, one by one,
The dangers that wait to assail you.

But just buckle right in with a bit of a grin,
Just take off your coat and go to it;
Just start to sing as you tackle the thing
That cannot be done, and you'll do it .

Edgar Guest

[Steve in VC]

Exxxxxxxxxxcellent!

[oldtimer02]

Tom & Bill,

SUPER JOB!!!

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Attached is a comparison of our dyno runs first stock then with the kit installed. I decided to play with the octane and see the effects. As you can see we gained 75rwhp with the Coldside setup on 91 octane and 85rwhp on 95 octane.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

And this is a beauty shot of the engine bay :).

[FormerDatsun510Man]

A few more shots.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

A close-up of the fuel rail.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Here are what the EGTs look like with all this boost. FWIW, 1400 deg F is what I have learned seems to work best on these setups. Interestingly, this is also the same EGTs that we saw when the car was stock with no boost. We are running E-Cool here at the same setting as on our 1.8 kit, about 50% duty on the 500cc injector. EGTs stay nice and tight all the way to redline.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Couple pictures for your viewing pleasure.

[richie01_1963]

Tom,

Was going to upgrade them but is a Big brake kit and better clutch needed for all the extra power. Just dropped in a new Koyo rad.

Thanks

Here are what the EGTs look like with all this boost. FWIW, 1400 deg F is what I have learned seems to work best on these setups. Interestingly, this is also the same EGTs that we saw when the car was stock with no boost. We are running E-Cool here at the same setting as on our 1.8 kit, about 50% duty on the 500cc injector. EGTs stay nice and tight all the way to redline.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We are running stock brakes with good pads.

[richie01_1963]

What about the clutch. Was she a happy camper ? Got a 91 Sunburst which has limited slip which was good to know.

Thanks

Rich

We are running stock brakes with good pads.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We did replace the clutch. Unlike the 94-05 cars, I think the smaller 1.6L clutch would have a problem. We picked up a used 1.8L flywheel and installed a 1.8L ACT HD clutch.

We also replaced the header with a header from Raceland USA. it is a 4-2-1 header and the quality is beyond reproach. The stainless is georgeous, the welds are beautiful, the runners were almost identical to the older Racing Beat 4-2-1 header AND it was ~$100 delivered. We have used them before for other customers and would buy from them again in a heartbeat.

[richie01_1963]

Figured I would need to upgrade the clutch. Thanks for the info on the header. Heard good things also.

We did replace the clutch. Unlike the 94-05 cars, I think the smaller 1.6L clutch would have a problem. We picked up a used 1.8L flywheel and installed a 1.8L ACT HD clutch.

We also replaced the header with a header from Raceland USA. it is a 4-2-1 header and the quality is beyond reproach. The stainless is georgeous, the welds are beautiful, the runners were almost identical to the older Racing Beat 4-2-1 header AND it was ~$100 delivered. We have used them before for other customers and would buy from them again in a heartbeat.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Be sure to use the stock 1.8L flywheel. They are cheap used.

[Elphaba]

Thats the setup on my 91 1.8 flywheel ACT stage 1 and a 1.8 Torrsen rear end. Never had a problem.

[Satisaii]

I got to drive Tom's car for about 30 minutes on the track at Laguna Seca this weekend. Nice power delivery and driveability. Seemed like driving a stock car, just faster. I would say that I couldn't even tell the supercharger was there... except for the fact that I kept running other cars down FAST

Kudos to Bill and Tom for developing such a nice kit.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

John, thanks for the ride on the track! Also thanks to Ric Weldon for the time out there. It was a lot of fun!

The 1.6 Coldside is very transparent on the track, yet it very quickly reels in the other cars :). Next year I will be sure to be a bit better prepared. #1, bring my own helmet. #2, don't use stock shocks that have 87K and 20 years on them LOL. Despite the fact we had put new rotors on the car, braided lines and Hawk Blue pads (thanks Ric!), Ric still managed to smoke the rotors pretty good after 5 laps or so. So I guess it builds up enough speed before the turns? :biggrin:

I learned a lot over at Rebello too. Very nice group of a people. I hope to go there again. I was drooling over all of the race prepped Datsun L series engines. Brian, Dave Rebello's son, was extremely knowledgeable and very patient. We confirmed that:

1) E-Cool works
2) 11-11.5:1 is the optimum A/F mixture. I felt much reassured when both Dave and Brian Rebello pulled the plugs and commented that the plugs were burning very clean and it was about optimal.
3) We can make a lot of power non-intercooled. 270 crank hp translates to approx. 240rwhp on a Dynojet. That is 15rwhp better than what I managed with the 130mm pulley on my stock 1.8 engine.

Bill

[Steve in VC]

John, thanks for the ride on the track! Also thanks to Ric Weldon for the time out there. It was a lot of fun!

The 1.6 Coldside is very transparent on the track, yet it very quickly reels in the other cars :). Next year I will be sure to be a bit better prepared. #1, bring my own helmet. #2, don't use stock shocks that have 87K and 20 years on them LOL. Despite the fact we had put new rotors on the car, braided lines and Hawk Blue pads (thanks Ric!), Ric still managed to smoke the rotors pretty good after 5 laps or so. So I guess it builds up enough speed before the turns? :biggrin:

I learned a lot over at Rebello too. Very nice group of a people. I hope to go there again. I was drooling over all of the race prepped Datsun L series engines. Brian, Dave Rebello's son, was extremely knowledgeable and very patient. We confirmed that:

1) E-Cool works
2) 11-11.5:1 is the optimum A/F mixture. I felt much reassured when both Dave and Brian Rebello pulled the plugs and commented that the plugs were burning very clean and it was about optimal.
3) We can make a lot of power non-intercooled. 270 crank hp translates to approx. 240rwhp on a Dynojet. That is 15rwhp better than what I managed with the 130mm pulley on my stock 1.8 engine.

Bill130mm pulley on this?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Yes, a 130mm crank pulley and 65mm SC nose pulley.

[socal pat]

Yes, a 130mm crank pulley and 65mm SC nose pulley.

WE (I mean I) need stats on this! Cam numbers etc. I need 240 whp!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Don't you guys have a 94-05 set of forums? :)

[socal pat]

Don't you guys have a 94-05 set of forums? :)

Sorry, but Bill got us all worked up!!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Elphaba

What's ya doin Sunday or Monday? You gotta drive this now. :)