New Zealands First FFS Kit Install

[KiwiFFSFan]

Well the day has arrived, i have just been down to the warrant station to get a fresh warrant for my 99 miata and its back in the garage where i will jack it up and start the install.
I will take some photos as i proceed and also talk abbout the install as i go, also hopefully will get answers to the questions i know i will have as i get into the project proper

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Shouldn't the title read "First of MANY"? :)

Post your questions here as you go or email me. I'm sure you will get lots of help either way.

[KiwiFFSFan]

True Tom.... FIRST OF MANY!

Well first evening out in the garage and i have proceeded to No 38 on the instruction sheet. Straight forward at the moment.... I have no egv system on mine so i am just ignoring the instructions on these steps. Stopped for the night and will continue tomorrow starting with the removal of the intake lower half of the manifold
Step 17 regarding the boost sensor hose.... the pic is a little unclear and looks a little different to my car....What does the boost sensor look like??? i think i have removed it correctly but would like a little clarification on this if i can
More Tomorrow

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No EGR, no Boost sensor.

[KiwiFFSFan]

AHA!!!! well that helps.......i thought it was a bit strange a non boosted car having a boost sensor...
I notice i seem to have a Fuel rail in my kit to install......when is the best time to install this?
There is talk of a special tool to take apart the fuel lines??? it looks as though they are just ordinary clamps.....
My fuel lines enter the engine bay vertically on the right hand side of the engine bay .... it looks like they may need to be bent a little outwards to get clearance for the blower i will know soon enough.

Talk of a flow and return line...Mmmmm i asume the flow line is the one that goes to the front of the rail and is attached at the end that has the bolt on device with a vacuum tube going to it and the return ia just the plain one..

With the new Rail is it ok to have flow at one end and return at other? i am thinking flow at front and return at back???

Thanks
Robert

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Post a picture of your stock fuel rail. Especially where the green dohicky is at the one end. Does that little green thingy have any tubes coming out of it?

[KiwiFFSFan]

Well end of the second evening and i have got to the end of the removal of parts now onto the installation of the supercharger...
I had an interesting evening getting the stock lower manifold off what a job! plenty of knuckles knocked and blood spilt but eventually got it.. I found that the removal of the bottom brace and altenator and oil filter helped in the removal of the lower bolts.
I will post a pic of the fuel rail so Tom can tell me what is the feed and what is the return line
Also i did a short fit up to check clearances and that has raised a few interesting things
The rear ecool injector looks like it will interfere with a bracket that holds a big cylindrical tube that has vacum lines coming out of it.... i would like to know what this thing is and if other installers have had the same problem

Also the throttle actuator is hitting the brake booster assembly on part opening.... there is a projection on the throttle actuator that seems to do nothing except foul the booster assembly..... it looks like it could be cut of with no consequence to give clearance and full throttle opening...
I will post pics of these two problems and hope someone will be able to help e out here
Do i need to put ultrablack in the intake manifold either side if the intake gasket when i bolt on the supercharger or do i leave it dry?
More questions tomorrow for sure

[jportwood]

Hey Kiwi, The plastic cylinder in question with the vac lines is the charcoal canister. No problem relocating it. I moved mine forward enough to clear things. Do keep it in the up right position. No need to use anything on your intake gasket. While you have the intake off it's a good time to replace the water line coming off the oil filter base going to the rear of the block.

[MX-Drew]

When I install my kit I changed the brake booster from a duel diaphragm unit to a single diaphragm unit that is used on the Sport in the UK, it gives a firmer feel to the brakes and gives clearance for the throttle.

I would not just cut the projection off because the throttle will still hit when the engine moves when it is revved! When / if it does hit the throttle plate gets hit into the throttle body and after a while a burr is raised and this jams the throttle open. How do I know? It happened to me, that's how.

Change the booster and gently bend the brake lines to create the clearance.

Take a look at the pictures here, I can take more if you require : Pictures here (http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1812)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That projection on the TB is for the kick down on automatic transmissions. We used to cut those off all the time. If you don't have an automatic, it is a useless appendage.

The "Return Line" is the line coming off the bottom of the Fuel Pressure Regulator. We recommend that you mount the FPR on the brass adaptor on the front end of the new high flow fuel rail. A lot of the "Return" kits feed the fuel to the fitting on the top of the fuel rail back by cylinders 3/4. Don't forget to plug the hole at the back of the fuel rail. If you don't have an EGR, you might prefer to feed the back of the fuel rail and plug the top hole. Works great either way.

Just bend that web of metal out of the way of the fuel injector. No problem there. Some have even cut off that web. BTW, the Grey injector goes towards the front of the car and the blue injector goes towards the firewall.

Bill and several others have found it a LOT easier to pre assemble and Ultra Black the top half of the blower assembly to the intake manifold before install to the head.

[KiwiFFSFan]

thanks for all the great help guys....Tom you mention a special tool to take off fuel lines..... i this still included in the kit? it seems that the fuel hoses are just clamped on and can just be twisted/pulled off after the clamp is removed .. is this correct?
Alsi it would seem to be easier to put the manifold and blower assy on to the motor and tighten the manifold nuts with the fuel rail removed...do you see any issues with this?
At the moment the fpr thingy return hose is stopping the assembly from fully coming up to the motor but it looks like if i use the new rail and brass adapter i can angle the bottom inwards towards the motor so the hose has more clearance...

[KiwiFFSFan]

MX Drew look at this pic of my booster... the bit that is close to the throttle loks like a joiner /balancer casting and this doesnt connect to the booster itself.. it only has brake lines in and out of it and it attaches with one bolt to a bracket... my thoughts are just to move it so it doesnt interfere.... what do you reckon?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

In your case, you don't need the tool. I think the tool didn't come into play until after the return fuel systems. You simply loosen the clamp and pull.

As you have a return system, the old fuel rail must come off to install the kit. No problem, you are going to replace it anyhow.


thanks for all the great help guys....Tom you mention a special tool to take off fuel lines..... i this still included in the kit? it seems that the fuel hoses are just clamped on and can just be twisted/pulled off after the clamp is removed .. is this correct?
Alsi it would seem to be easier to put the manifold and blower assy on to the motor and tighten the manifold nuts with the fuel rail removed...do you see any issues with this?
At the moment the fpr thingy return hose is stopping the assembly from fully coming up to the motor but it looks like if i use the new rail and brass adapter i can angle the bottom inwards towards the motor so the hose has more clearance...

[MX-Drew]

I did what you are suggesting, unbolted the balancer and gently moved the pipes and ran the car like that for some time but I felt it should be bolted to something after all Mazda thought it should be. The easy way for me to achieve that was change the booster, I wanted to change it anyway as I'm fitting Sport brakes.



MX Drew look at this pic of my booster... the bit that is close to the throttle loks like a joiner /balancer casting and this doesnt connect to the booster itself.. it only has brake lines in and out of it and it attaches with one bolt to a bracket... my thoughts are just to move it so it doesnt interfere.... what do you reckon?

[bogey]

On NAs, fuel lines are just slip fittings and do not require a tool. There is a tip on the feed vs return line:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311

In stock config, the lines are crossed: front pipe fitting to back of fuel rail and rear pipe fitting to front of fuel rail.

With the FFS, you will probably want to reverse these. Feel the fuel rail from the side of the rail, plug the back end of the rail and put the FPR on the front of the rail. Then connect the rear fuel pipe (feed) to a T that splits to the back/side feed of the fuel rail and to the e-cool injectors, and the front fuel pipe (return) to the FPR connection.

[KiwiFFSFan]

thanks Since i have no egr system on mine i have elected to feed the rail from the rear and return on the front it looks ok like this but i may change the feed if it is neater to do the t fittings to the ecool injectors that way
By the way it seems that my ecool injectors wiring connectors are both facing down when tight... i woul like them to at the top to allow better clearance... has anyone had the same issue and what did they do to fix it..

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Find a flat washer about 1" or 25mm diameter and punch/drill a 5/8" hole in the center. 3mm thick would be about right. Remember 1 full 360 turn of the injector takes 1/18" as it is a 5/8-18 thread. That's about 0.050" or 1.25mm.

[MX-Drew]

On NAs, fuel lines are just slip fittings and do not require a tool. There is a tip on the feed vs return line:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=311

In stock config, the lines are crossed: front pipe fitting to back of fuel rail and rear pipe fitting to front of fuel rail.


He has a 99 hence it should be a NB.

[KiwiFFSFan]

Yes mine is a NB but still slip fittings

Well evening 3 has gone and supercharger is bolted on and its majorly back together no great issues ... a few closeish fitting places... it is snug but very workable... i just shudder to think of the hours that have gone into producing such a quality kit.
major things to do include vacuum reticulation , mounting the iac and vacuum block and throttle cable then ecool wiring and fuel plumbing.... its starting to look very good...
Tom you did mention that there were a few changes or differences with the vacuum????
THE END IS IN SIGHT!!!!!!!!!

[bogey]

He has a 99 hence it should be a NB.

But if you look at the photos, it has return lines and connections like an NA. I suspect a 99 in other parts of the world may be a cross between US NA ans NB configurations.

[MX-Drew]

I agree but as it is not a true NA I would say it would be wrong to assume it is the same without checking. After all it could have been made in to a return system by a previous owner for some strange reason. :online2long:


But if you look at the photos, it has return lines and connections like an NA. I suspect a 99 in other parts of the world may be a cross between US NA ans NB configurations.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

He has a 99 but in that part of the world still has the NA fuel system.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here are the basics of the vacuum hoses:

1) Air Filter to MAF to rubber fitting to 3" aluminum tube to 3" hose to BTB.
2) Fitting on 3" tube to Barb on cam cover near the oil filler cap. Then cut this hose and insert 3/8" TEE. Run third leg of TEE to inlet (#1 on attached picture) on IAC.
3) PCV valve to barb on the block under the TB adaptor. Cut this hose and insert a 3/8" TEE. Take the third leg of this TEE to the outlet of IAC (#2 on attached picture).
4) Barb on the other end of the block under the TB adapter goes to one end of the VDB.
5) Other end of VDB goes to the brake booster.
6) Everything else goes to the VDB.

[MX-Drew]

2) Fitting on 3" tube to Barb on cam cover near the oil filler cap. Then cut this hose and insert 3/8" TEE. Run third leg of TEE to inlet (#1 on attached picture) on IAC.
3) PCV valve to barb on the block under the TB adaptor. Cut this hose and insert a 3/8" TEE. Take the third leg of this TEE to the outlet of IAC (#2 on attached picture).

Tom there is no attached picture. :online2long:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That's what I get for lifting that out of an email. :)

[KiwiFFSFan]

Well my weekend has gone by in a blur spent about 5 hours pottering on saturday and managed to get all but the pcpro. vacuum lines and ecool done.
sunday i got stuck in and by 5 pm had all the work done and looked over the install checking to see if i had omitted anything. All looked good but the clearance between the throttle body and the clutch will be a problem to get the flexi hose on....so i will see about making the adapter for the clutch remote reservoir, this will give adequate clearance... however i did manage to squeeze the pipe on temporarily tonight.... checked it all over again and the decided that it was good to go......
It only cranked for about 5 seconds before she caught and idle settled down nicely without any adjustment ... checked for fuel leaks ... apparently none....
All i want to do now is get the cold air box on... remote resevoir done and flexihose permanently in place and then it will be fun time....
Once i have finished the job i will post more pics on here but for now here is one i took tonight
Could anyone advise me where to stick the IAT sensor? is there a place in the cold air box to fit it or do i cut a hole in the end of the air filter and insert it there?

[jportwood]

If you like you can drill and use the grommet off the fac. box to fit in the CAB. I tie-wrapped mine to the head light wire bundle. There's a cut-out at the bottom of the box to route the wire. In any case make sure the sensor clears all surrounding components.
Congratulation on your install.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ari has as spot for it on his CAI box.

Check and double check everything. After 50 miles or so, check again.

I mounted the canister on the CAI on my 90. Ari's latest boxes are real nice stiff aluminum.

[KiwiFFSFan]

Well its done!... the car has gone out of the garage and just carefully driven about 10 kms to check everything is still leakproof....
First impressions.... Well if i hadnt known a supercharger was under the bonnet because i put it there.... it just drives just like it did last week.... so off boost its just the same old car.... smooth throttle response and perfect idle...i couldnt help one little tweak as i was heading out of town.... absolutely smooth tip in with absolutely no hiccups or hesitation... just a smooth roll in to about 5 lbs of boost... not heavily on throttle and pressed down just enough to here the whine kick in.... talk about getting goosebumps....just awesome!
Tom and all those who helped with advice as i was installing it .. a great thank you to you all.... the after sales service is just out of this world....
Tomorrow i will get out and about a bit more and wind a bit of boost in at times... no sign of pink or knock as yet and i dont expect it... i am armed with an afr guage and knock monitor as well as a boost guage so i am confident i have the tools to make sure she is running well
Our local MX5 club is having a run on 14th of november and i am hoping that all will be ok and i will join them for a great days cruising, there are lots of people waiting to see it running!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

As I said, we are not seller/customer around here, we are all family. Everybody helps everybody. Glad all is done and operational. Now that you know what it feels like at half throttle, wait till you press the pedal to the floor. :)

[KiwiFFSFan]

Just a quick update, The car is completed and i have driven about 500 kms so far all still tight and leak free.... vacuum is good and i am off on my first mx5 run with out local club this sunday.
The car is booked for the dyno next wednesday at 9 am for a look at how she is going and perhaps some fine tuning.... I just want to ensure its getting good horsepower but safely with no knock on our local 98 ron fuel ....which should be about 93 in your language

I will post pics of the car on here and the results of the dyno work as well next week and will be only too happy to assist anyone else contemplating a RHD FFs kit in the future

[KiwiFFSFan]

Greetings all
Well its been a few months and about 6000 kilometers on my new FFS powered mazda.... i have dynoed the car ... and at that point the car seemed to be leaning out as revs rose.... from as low as about 10.5 slowly creaping up as revs rose till at about 6000 revs and wideband up to the mid 12.5 range my knock detector lights up
During the dyno tests the dyno operator settled on all standard settings but dialed in 4 lights of timing on the red range.... and thats where it is today....
main is 4-6-3 as per latest instuction
ecool is 3.5 for dual ecool
timing is 6 lights green-blue with 4 lights red as well

I am thinking maybe i shouls adjust the main card red blue up some lights to stop the creeping lean as revs rise toards 6000 revs.....

does this sound a valid thing to do??? or am i reading the instructionns wrong??? and is there any reason why my car should need anything other than stock settings?
my vacuum looks good at 20 on idle... the same as before i installed the kit, and the dyno guy checked fuel pressure during the run and it stayed at 55 psi thoughout the run.clamping the return hose upped it to 75 psi so the pump seems to have a good reserve of capacity
any help would be greatly appreciated
I am not certain that i am getting knock other than the KDD lights lighting up as i have a fairl loud exhaust system and i am not sure i could hear knock over the engine noise....but i am concerned that the trend of afr under full throttle in 4th gear rises from about 10.5 at 3000 to high 12's by 6000

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It should not be starting at 10 and leaning to 12.5. I would double check the tubing fittings going to the cards. Do you have a boost gauge? If so, what is happening to boost? Is the vac/boost gauge connected in the same line as the cards and close to the cards? There are a couple things that can cause what you are seeing. If the cards are not seeing the actual boost for some reason (tubing not tight or a leak), then they will add less fuel as actual boost rises. Also, make sure you turn the key on, wait a few seconds and then start the engine. if it fails to start, key off and then back to on and repeat. The cards need a couple seconds with key on to calibrate to ambient pressure. If you simply go from key off to start, that could also confuse boost on the cards.

Bill will jump in and add more, I'm sure.

[KiwiFFSFan]

i have double checked the tube fittings to the cards... they are firm and yes i do have a boost guage....and it is an electrical one but all connected close to each other on same vacuum/boost tube. I wait a few seconds before i start car after ignition on..... wait for the cards to light up....

The cards go into boost mode at the same time that the boost guage shows boost... so i am happy with that....

boost climbs pretty rapidly as i accellerate and tops out around 10-12 psi.... i have an exhaust with no emmision controls so there should be no restriction

I am a bit vague on the afr as i am watching that the speedo the tach and the road at the same time..but the trend is slowly rising afr as revs rise... i am pretty sure it getts to about 12.5 as it passes 6000 and the KDD lights up...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The new setup and software should simply drop in around 11.5-12 and stay there. You are probably getting knock because it is leaning out. Make sure there is no sheep dip in the fuel. ;)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

First thing to ask, are you running a fuel return type fuel system? If so, make sure the pressure regulator is hooked up to the boost line and NOT the vacuum only line. If it was hooked up to the vacuum line the fuel curve would get progressively leaner with increasing rpm. In the U.S., the '99 is a returnless fuel system, but I wasn't sure about the New Zealand Miatas. If you have a returnless fuel system, disregard this check.

Next, check the cards. Is the blue light on each card becoming illuminated when in boost? If not, the card is not adding fuel (or retarding timing in the case of the timing card). Also, the blue light should go off when in vacuum. Also make sure the cards are seeing the same boost as the engine. The easy way to check this is to have the boost gauge connected to the same line that goes directly to the cards.

The other issue could still be the fuel pump. I tuned the cards at the settings when using a Walbro 255 fuel pump. This resulted in a fuel curve that would start off at 12.5-13:1 up until 3500rpm and then it would progressively richen up to 11.5 by 4500rpm and hold it there up to the rev cut at 6900rpm. If you are running the stock fuel pump it is possible you need to increase the R-B setting on the Main card to 5 or 6 to get a similar result.

I definitely would expect knock at 12.5:1 A/F ratio. These setups can't run that lean and don't stay in it long at that A/F ratio at high rpm. From 5000rpm and higher the leanest you should ever see is 12:1 and preferably 11.5:1. While you are figuring out the fuel, be sure to have the Timing Card set to 6 lights (3/4 of a deg/psi retard) on the G-B.

Bill

[KiwiFFSFan]

Bill.... i think that i may have the fuel regulator on the return side of the sytem.... the hose comes from the fuel tank ( and pump. ) on to the rear of the rail... the front of the rail has the regulator on it..... and the hose connected to it goes back to the return..... is this wrong??????

[KiwiFFSFan]

Hang on... do you mean the vacuum line that goes from the FPR???? i have mine going to the vacuum distrbution block.....should i have it on the vacuum /boost side the same as the boost guage and the cards?????

[bogey]

Based on the photos you posted during the install, you have an NA style return system. The rear hard line it the fuel feed and front is fuel return. If you have them reversed, the car should not run (unless the FPR is wide open).

Have you verified that the FPR is good? If its is stuck open, as revs increase, its not able to hold the fuel pressure and you start to go lean. I had this same problem.

The "official" check procedure is to put a fuel pressure inline between fuel feel and the fuel rail. Then start the car, get fuel pressure pressure. Next, shut off car and see if it holds pressure (about ~40lbs for 5-10 minutes after shutoff).

The simple check is to remove the FPR and see if you can blow though it. If you can, its broken.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

You definitely need to hook up the line from the fuel pressure regulator to the boost line... i.e., the same line that goes to the cards. I am sorry the instructions state to hook it up to the vacuum distribution block, but those instructions are out of date on that item. We hook up the FPR to the boost line because this way we get a similar amount of fuel from the main injectors on the fuel return type systems as on the returnless type systems (which run at a constant 62psi rail pressure). This way we get as much fuel from the main stock injectors as possible and also can use the same tune settings on both type of systems.

[Rudolf]

:confused:You definitely need to hook up the line from the fuel pressure regulator to the boost line... i.e., the same line that goes to the cards. I am sorry the instructions state to hook it up to the vacuum distribution block, but those instructions are out of date on that item. We hook up the FPR to the boost line because this way we get a similar amount of fuel from the main injectors on the fuel return type systems as on the returnless type systems (which run at a constant 62psi rail pressure). This way we get as much fuel from the main stock injectors as possible and also can use the same tune settings on both type of systems.
WOW :confused:

Does this apply to 94-97 as well ?
This is the latest manual for the 94-97 and I am VERY confused now.
94-97 Install (http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/Install/Coldside-Install-94-97-PC-Pro-CARB-C.pdf)
Look at page 4, 50 and 60, are they all wrong ?
My car is pinging.
I am afaid I to ruin my engine, so I would very much like to have the right installation instructions.

Erik

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Yes, sorry, that is one item on the instructions that is still out of date. Unless Tom has done something different since my departure, I hooked up all FPR, both on '94-'97 and also our '90-'93 1.6 Kit, to the boost line. This way, it doesn't lean out at high rpm and there is plenty of fuel up top. As always, set the A/F ratio to 11.5:1 from 4500-7000rpm.

It is not to say that it won't work with vacuum only connected to the FPR, it is just that the main injectors end up running too much duty cycle at redline. On the single injector E-Cool setups I found the main injectors were running to high with it hooked up that way. On some cars it could static out the main injectors, lean out and then start knocking. Thus, hooking up the FPR to boost is much preferred to give much more available fuel from the same size injectors when in boost. You may have to readjust your cards to get the fuel curve correct again.

Sorry about the instructions. I haven't messed with them since my departure from FFS.

[Rudolf]

Yes, sorry, that is one item on the instructions that is still out of date.

...........................

Sorry about the instructions. I haven't messed with them since my departure from FFS.
I really think you (someone) should EDIT the main instructions.
As it is now, there are some writings here and there, scattered around on the forum about the errors in the instructions.
To be sure you have got it right you have to read through all the post on the forum.
In the instruction section you get the impression that the instructions are updated and revised, but that is not the case.
At least the important "Hose Routing Diagram" on page 4 should be right.

http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w189/rudolf_2007/FFS.jpg

I have been working on my ping problem for more than a year and I have invested quite some money and time to stop it pinging.
(new fuel pump, new injectors, new header, new exhaust, new cat etc.)
My pinging problem has been discussed on the forum as well.
I get very surprised when i suddenly read that I have connected the FPR wrong.
I am 100% sure that I am not the only one confused.

So, I ask you, please update the instructions to include every issue you know about (also the diagrams, lists, photos, drawings etc.)

Erik

[KiwiFFSFan]

Ok......I have just made the change with the fpr hose from the vacuum hose to the boost hose...AND WHAT A DIFFERENCE.... the afr is steady and stays about 10.5 the whole way rto red line and no more knock....

Thanks For the Advice .... i have not really noticed it in the past as i am a reasonably conservative driver and dont usually go over 5000 reves flat thottle

But as i am about to go to a track day i thought i better get it sorted....

I have always had a knock detector , an afr and a boost guage so i have always been aware of the cars tendancy to lean out at higher revs and have driven accordingly

It all goes to show that the guages were working and i should have paid more attention to them....

It would be a grand idea if we could get this info out ASAP to help others who may be in the same situation

Once again thanks for the prompt answer to my question Bill and Tom.....and for nailing it in 12 hours from the other side of the world....
I really owe you that beer now Tom!!!!!

And how did you find out we up the octane on our fuel with sheep dip??? Hahahaha

[FormerDatsun510Man]

I'm glad the a/f staying steady now. The next step is to adjust the Main Card down so you see 11.5:1. Start by reducing the Y-B on the Main Card from 6 lights to 5 lights. You want to see 12.5-13:1 below 3500rpm and 11.5:1 by 4500-5000rpm.

[socal pat]

Well Kiwi, now you know first hand why we FFS owners are so staunch about our loyalties. I was doing the cold-air mod sold by Ari today. Ran into a question. Even though I bought my kit over 4 years ago and this mod isn't made by Tom he answered my call and had an immediate answer for me. He is a GOD! Ok a demi-god. ;)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

In 1999/2000 Hasbro Toys did the largest promotion of any toy ever in NZ. The ProYo II and Turbo Bumble Bee. Those were my yoyos. We got to know NZ pretty well. When you sell an average of 1 yoyo for every man, woman and child in a country, it is considered a hit. ;) Of course, it would have been even better had we been able to sell 1 yoyo for every sheep as I understand there are more sheep than men, women and children.


And how did you find out we up the octane on our fuel with sheep dip??? Hahahaha

[KiwiFFSFan]

Very funny... .. there are 40 million sheep at the moment give or take 1 or 2..... down from appprox 60 million back in 2000

Ok.... i have lowered the yellow blue to five with a slight improvement... but if i bury the foot in fourth at 2500 revs it dives immediatly below 11...what is making this happen and how can i lean it out below 3500 ????

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We sold just under 2,000,000 yoyos in that push in 99-00 in NZ.

I think R/B needs adjusting next but you might wait for the definitive word from Bill. He might suggest G/B?

[socal pat]

I'm tuning my E85 conversion and having the same thing happen (low end richness). Your GB is kinda high. Also if you are seeing below 11.5 anywhere below 5k rpm it is time to back off on the mains YB. Once that is taken care of and you have the correct 12+_ at 2-3.5 krpm then you can up the RB to richen the high end.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Robert,

Our prayers go out to you and the people of NZ. Hope all is well with you. Please pop in and loet us know that you are OK.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

I'd like to add my prayers as well. Second one in the last month? I hope everything is doing ok over there. Seems like we have had quite a few natural disasters in the last few years. I hope things start improving soon for everyone.

[KiwiFFSFan]

thanks for all your thoughts and prayers... i am fine here as i live in the north island.... but its just horrific down there... people dead on the streets in rubble, dead in cars and busses and in colapsed buildings. i work for telecom here in NZ and comms down there is in dissarray...lots of people still trapped in buildings..... some on fire as well..... it will be new zealands darkest day for sure.....

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The people who pray here made my tumor disappear. I will speak for the others but I'm sure those in need will be in everyones prayers. Stay safe.

[MX-Drew]

On behalf of myself and the people of the UK, our thoughts and prayers are with the people of NZ.

[KiwiFFSFan]

Ok......i have been having a bit more of a play.....

checking boost..... it seems that i have around 5 psi at 2500 full throttle.
7.5 at 3000
and around 10 by the time it swings past 4000 revs

cards are going into boost at the transition to boost on my guage

trying to get the rich down low sorted... i have knocked my g-b down to 1 on my main card
y-b down to 5

this has lifted the low end afr up to above 12.5 at full throttle at 2500 revs..
the afr stays around 12.5 as the revs rise dropping to mid 11.5 after 4000 staying there right the way through
I do need to check my base timing .... but unless i dial about a 4 into the red on my timing card i get a pink at about 6500 revs with our 98 fuel.... which should be around 93 in yout terms

i would like to lean out the car more under 3500 revs... but any adjustment i do seems to raise afr over the entire range... not just down low.....
i can see how reducing the g-b on the main card starts the reduction of main jet fuel at lower revs.... but it seems that the moment i floor it at 2500 the ecool and mains are supplying too much fuel...how can i reduce it????.. my ecool is set at 3.5. lowering this also just raises the afr over the whole range...

Bill or Tom.... when you floor your cars in 4th at 2500 revs,,,, what afr are you getting????

I only want to get afr up at lower revs to reduce fuel consumption...the pinking at high revs seems a little erratic... sometimes i can pull to 7000 with no pink at all... then 30 seconds later i try another and get some.....sometimes i get a little pink pushing through the gears in 3rd at 7000 but not in 4th.....i am not an expert... does this seem normal....sometimes i do a run and the afr looks quite good down low... above 13 dropping to mid 11s ... the next run it has dropped under 12.5 and i have changed nothing.....

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Taht boost sounds pretty high?? Aren't you running the base 105/65 pulleys? If so, you shouldn't see but 10-10.5 at 7000. 5PSI at 3000 would be about right but 10PSI at 4000 is not right. That would also cause the cards to run rich as they are seeing way more boost than the expect so they are trying to compensate. Please advise pulleys.

[KiwiFFSFan]

ok.. pulleys are 65 and 105....... went out to confirm numbers.... as soon as i floor it at 2000 revs it is over 5 psi...... up to 7.5 at 3000... 4000 its about 8.5.... 5000 it gets to 10 psi... and at 7000 its 11psi.... i am surprised it rises so rapidly to around 10 psi......

i have also looked at the lights on the cards.... i think i will need a copilot to be acurate but i believe there are 5 lights on the ecool card at 5000 revs,,,, and i think either the same or maybe 6 lights on the main card.... i believe that one of these may be displaying boost pressure......

i have the ecool card set at 3.5

main is gb 0...yb..4...yr 5

still too rich at 2500 revs... about 12.5... lowering to early 11s then 10s around 4500 revs.... stays pretty constant untill after 6 when it leans off quite quickly to over 12.5 and the kdd lights up brieflyat about 7000 but then goes out again.....

All the threads i have read seem to blame blocked cat for high pressures... my system does not have a cat... at least i dont think so.... will check under the car tomorrow....but i am pretty sure i just have the headers into a straight pipe down to the muffler at the back.....so i am a bit perplexed....

i may be running out of fuel with my standard pump over 6000 revs... just not sure.... maybe i should change fuel filter... where will i find that on the car???

[KiwiFFSFan]

yes confirmed.. only muffler at back

and looked at the dyno run.. boost on my guage is the same as the dyno chart as well.. so i am pretty sure boost values are right....

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The fact that we have standardized the fuel settings on the cards make a very good hp indicator. At a given a/f ratio, fuel = hp.

The fact that you have to turn the card settings way down with the standard 105/65 pulley setup to not have it overrich indicates to me that you are having a problem with airflow, and thus making power on your setup. How much you are turning the fuel down indicates how far down on power your car is. The high boost at early rpm and the much lower fuel settings, tell me there is a problem with your setup flowing air. Places to look are the exhaust system, cam timing, and engine itself (compression, leakdown).

Definitely get this checked out because if you push it at all with what you have indicted here you are risking detonation and engine damage.

I tuned a 1.8 that was having very similar problems and it turned out it the exhaust system was clogged at the rear muffler. I know this because it gained 30hp when I disconnected it. Plus the weld would broken at the muffler inlet. The cams being off a tooth or more can have a dramatic effect too. That is all I can think of so far. One thing is for sure, your engine is not flowing air post blower for some reason.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

With the 105/65 pulleys I would see 6psi at 4000rpm, 8-9psi at 5000-6000rpm, and 10psi by the rev cut at 6900rpm.

[KiwiFFSFan]

thanks.... it doesnt seem to be that down on power ...195 hp at the dyno....it only developed this rich problem when i swapped the vacuum line on the fpr from the vacuum distribution block to the vacuum boost feed

seeing my car seems to be more like an NA in the fuel return system , is there any difference in the cards programming for the na??
i will get the compression test done and check the other things you mentioned...though i have a feeling there is just something else somewhere...
silly question probably but the vacuum boost connection that goes to the cards etc is the one on the side of the blower inlet manifold....??

it was way leaner when i had the fpr on vacuum only side... way too lean over 4500... but great down low... what i am aiming for now......just couldnt get it rich enough over 4500 revs to red line

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Do you have a dyno graph with the power/torque curves and the a/f ratio plotted? That would help a lot.

The cards are programmed the same for all 1.8L NAs and NBs and it turns out the same fuel settings result in the same a/f ratio for these cars... 12.5-13:1 below 3500rpm and richening up to 11.5:1 for high rpm.

The stock engine should run around 12:1 at WOT in stock unboosted form. We are running the same 105/65 pulley on all 1.8L cars so the amount of fuel we need to add is the same. Thus the fuel curve on the cards can be the same. At least that was my conclusion after trying this on 1.8L 94-97, 99-00 and 01-05.

[KiwiFFSFan]

yes i do at home, this dyno run was done when i had the fpr set up on the vacuum distribution block... afr was lean all through the range and boost was as i see it now..... i will get it scanned and attach it in a new message shortly

[KiwiFFSFan]

here is the dyno info... this run was done with the fpr connected to the vacuum distribution block and red on timing card set to 4 to stop top end ping.
as you can see the afr was quite lean but as soon as i connected fpr to vacuum /boost line... then it went rich.. that is where i am now

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The fuel pressure is probably set to 43psi at idle right? That would mean you have 53psi at 0psi and 64psi at 11psi. That would mean the fuel flow increase should be (when hooked up to the boost line vs. vacuum line) (64/53)^.5 = 1.1 or a 10%. That would mean your 13:1 at top end should turn into 13/1.1 = 11.8:1. Air/fuel should be perfect with no changes to the card settings as you had it on the dyno.

Also, I see you are about 10rwhp low for a '99-'00 at 184rwhp. That makes sense, because you are pulling an additional 4 deg of timing (go figure 13:1 a/f ratio !!!). Typically it is about 2-3rwhp loss per degree of timing pulled. That equates to 8-12rwhp loss. Thus I predict with the properly richened air/fuel mixture it should allow you to put the red zone back to 0 and 192-196rwhp. Which is spot on for how the kit should be performing. Still can't explain the higher boost reading? It is about 1psi higher than normal on yours. Not as bad as I thought from your description now that I see the dyno graph, but still a tad high in boost.

With the card settings exactly like you had for the dyno, and the PC Pros hooked up to the boost line, describe your observed a/f ratio at full throttle vs. rpm.

[KiwiFFSFan]

sorry for taking so long.... lots of other things getting in the way..

Right.....
it seems that when i go into boost... even 1 psi under light excelleration... the afr dives under 12 at 2000 revs..... there is just no way it is close to 13

typically it drops immediatly to 10.5 or 11 to one the moment i floor it..... and just doing a few runs last night i still seem to have a rising afr after 6000 revs to above 12.5 to one and a hint of ping.....at least that is what i think it is.... i hear a noise and the car falters noticably in exelleration. this is usually just very brief.. around 6000 revs and most often disapears as revs rise further...

I would like to get some sort of logging going so i can do runs without more money at the dyno... i notice that some members are doing this... what software and hardware are they using to log these runs...... i would like to get a number of pulls logged as i dont seem to be getting the same thing all the time... sometimes i can get a ping on a run change nothing and get a good run shortly after....
one thing i have thought about is my fuel filter... i think ill change it so i can rule it out..... maybe i need a walbro pump as well????

[barrbm]

I would like to get some sort of logging going so i can do runs without more money at the dyno... i notice that some members are doing this...

I am just getting my system going, and have found my data acquisition very useful. See my first run here:

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2184&highlight=barrbm

This is from a zeitronix zt-2, with rpm and throttle position pickups wired into the ecu patch cable. A couple of notes though--

1) I do not think I can output the data and manipulate it-- what I show in the thread above is a screenshot from my PC;
2) I will be manually replotting AFR vs rpm for most feedback, since this seems to be the plot that is most meaningful;
3) My rpm signal is a bit wonky, with lots of noise. I have to interpret actual rpms the best I can. Not sure what this is-- I think this is a cam sensor pick up, but I might have done better picking up the crank sensor signal instead.

I have not run on dyno yet, so cannot attest to the AFR accuracy, but this runs a bosch wideband, so I expect it is close.

PS- the base unit is about 280 US$, and they have gauges that piggy back as well if you like. For 80 US$ extra, you can buy an audible and LED alarm. The system allows you to set smart alarm points on any of your sensors, e.g. alarm if rpm < 3500 AND AFR>15, alarm if 3500 <rpm < 5000 AND AFR>12.5,...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is OK to dive to 12:1 immediately. The 01-05 are the ones that typically stay around 13:1 until RPM starts to build. My 90 drops to around 10.5 at the start as well. Not really a problem.

Are you running the stock fuel pump? Colud be weak and running out of pressure as RPM increases? Walbro 190 is a good fix if that is the case.

You need to keep the A/F under 12 above 5000 or so. Above 12 will most like cause harm.

How much boost are you making along the way?

[KiwiFFSFan]

i am getting about 11 psi at rev limiter... slightly high i am told but i have no cat to clog.... some have suggested i check cam timing.... i havnt as yet... but she does get 195hp at the dyno... so it is performing well... just need to stop that ping happening occasionally...
Does the factory ecu need time to sele after each change??? does it learn so to speak???
i am going to invest in a data logger as well so i can do more accurate runs... its just too hard looking at the road the boost the afr and the rev counter at the same time Hahahah

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I am sure that ping is because you are running out of fuel. Should stay below 12:1 above 5000. Main card may need a touch of adjustment according to Bill's instructions. Is the fuel pump stock?

[KiwiFFSFan]

Yes the fuel pump is stock.... car has done around 135,000 kms now... another thing may be to replce fuel filter?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Replace the fuel filter, but I am 90% sure you will see the top end richen up with fuel pump replacement. I recommend the Walbro 190HP.

[KiwiFFSFan]

thanks... i will look around in new zealand for one.....is there much to replacing the stock one?

[KiwiFFSFan]

well that was easy.... fuel pump procured ... A walbro 190 plus fitting kit.....should be here tomorrow.... he di mention a walbro 255 pump... for an extra 20 dollars.... but i guess that its just overkill as he said that the 190 is good for way over 200 hp

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Yeah, actually, the 190hp is good for well over 300rwhp... :biggrin:

[KiwiFFSFan]

Well fuel pump arrived and installed last night.... did a few pulls in fourth tonight, before my throttle pully slipped and only gave me about 1/8th throttle.... AFR looks rock solid and not rising after 6000... so looks like i will be able to trim it well and take that 4 lights of red timing out...... will keep you posted.....

[KiwiFFSFan]

Hi all........ i have a programmer and wish to flash my main card with the lastest file ver4....... can anyone tell me how i do that?.. i have connected the programmet to my laptop ..do i need a program to run this??? and what is the user name and password???? could someone walk me through what i need to do to program my main card?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Robert, Just sent you an email with everything you need except the latest files. Bill keeps those up to date here: http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1733

[KiwiFFSFan]

Many thanks again..... ill get on to programming the main card tonight to ver-4 as i suffer the intermittant miss on idle.... nothing bad but if version 4 gets rid of it... great
I havnt done any more runs yet but the walbro 190 looks to have cured my high end lean problem... the few runs i have done have pulled strong to 7000 plus without a glimmer of pink... and afr well under 12....maybe i could even lean it a bit later after i back the timing off . Next to reduce top end timing (red ) back to zero and see if it still has no knock....

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Theoretically it is not necessary BUT, I recommend cutting the purple and purple/yellow wires. Then solder the ends that go to the harness together. Leave the ends that go to the card, open.