CEL problems?

[jportwood]

I've never been closer to pulling the trigger on a FI kit. I've read some posts about cel problems and just want to make sure this is not an issue with the kit itself. My car is a 10AE with a 4into1 RB, FM N/A midpipe. thanks

[chuckerants]

Most of the problems you've read about CELs have had to do with the cat being, uh, absent on cars. For example, on my car, the cat was costing me 15HP so I "liberated" from my car - both the main cat and the pre-cat. After that, I started getting the CEL. However, that's easily fixed by an O2 "simulator" that costs at most $40.

Both Tom and I both have this on our 99s (his 10AE and my plain ol 99) and it seems to work.

Also, the other case of CELs involve ThomS's 02. Even Thom as well as Tom will tell you that ThomS's car just isn't the norm. That's the nicest way I can put it.

Other than that, a CEL isn't really a problem with the FFS kits.

[99mx5]

I have a 99 coldside and I'm not getting any CELs.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

96-00 will throw a CEL if the cat is removed because they check to see if it is OK. Removed/missing makes the ECU think there MIGHT be something wrong with it. ;)

The 01-05 cars have a similar issue. The intake manifold is removed to install the new CS manifold. In the stock manifold is the VTCS. It is removed. The ECU keeps checking for it and, when it doesn't find it, throws a code. However, I think we have now solved the problem as we have duplicated the circuit. Only time will tell.

As the year in question is a 99 and doesn't have VTCS, it will be just fine.

If however, you decide to delete the cat to make more power, there are a couple devices on the market ranging from $3 to $25 that will cure the problem. I tried the $25 version (electronic) and it worked just fine. I have now removed it and am installing the $3 fix to test. If it works, it will be a cheap, simple and easy to install fix.

[jportwood]

Thanks for the reply.At this time I,m running a 4into1 rb, fm n/a midpipe w/fm highflow cat. on my 99. Will this exhaust set-up throw a cel. and if so is it because of a rich a/f mixture? I'm pro FFS and have plans on getting one I just want to cover my bases in advance so I can take care of the problem during the install of the s/c.

[99mx5]

It will throw a CEL unless you mount the secondary O2 sensor downstream of the cat so the ECU can monitor it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If you have no exhaust CEL now and don't change the exhaust, you will have no CEL with our kit.

[jportwood]

Thanks guys,I'm sorry for not phrasing my question right the first time.As you can see I'm new at this posting thing.

[ThomS]

Most of the problems you've read about CELs have had to do with the cat being, uh, absent on cars. For example, on my car, the cat was costing me 15HP so I "liberated" from my car - both the main cat and the pre-cat. After that, I started getting the CEL. However, that's easily fixed by an O2 "simulator" that costs at most $40.

Both Tom and I both have this on our 99s (his 10AE and my plain ol 99) and it seems to work.

Also, the other case of CELs involve ThomS's 02. Even Thom as well as Tom will tell you that ThomS's car just isn't the norm. That's the nicest way I can put it.

Other than that, a CEL isn't really a problem with the FFS kits.
Chuck, what is the badest way of putting it? It was Joe Btfsplk he has the black cloud. But it is all running in top order now no codes at least so far. We all think this is won of the best systems out there. I wouldn't trade it for anything.What do you say Tom it was Joe right?

[chuckerants]

Chuck, what is the badest way of putting it? It was Joe Btfsplk he has the black cloud. But it is all running in top order now no codes at least so far. We all think this is won of the best systems out there. I wouldn't trade it for anything.What do you say Tom it was Joe right?

lol

Yeah, let's blame it on Joe. :D

[jikemenkins]

If however, you decide to delete the cat to make more power, there are a couple devices on the market ranging from $3 to $25 that will cure the problem. I tried the $25 version (electronic) and it worked just fine. I have now removed it and am installing the $3 fix to test. If it works, it will be a cheap, simple and easy to install fix.



Tom, did you try that $3 fix yet? i wanna try somthing like what is pictured below (because it looks really fun and i can scare my grandma) can you tell me a little more about your "$25" electrical fix?

i kinda plan this as somthing just to swap in and have fun with every once in a while, or maby a track tool (if i ever get there)

[Dr Evol]

I have been running the "$3 dollar fix" for about a month now and it works. Mine cost me a little more because I bought it off eBay.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=015&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=250027957737&rd=1

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The $3 fix didn't work for me. I have an unused port on the PC-Pro that I think I can set to monitor the front O2 and subtract/offset and feed the rear. That should do the trick for free. :)

Any thoughts? How much do I need to subtract? 0.25V? Actually, I think I have to add voltage? Voltage goes up as it leans out?

[down_hill_dog]

Tom, I ended up purchasing a RB 2.37" stainless de-cat midpipe to help with power and to help cure ping. It works for me without a hiccup.

I went to the exhaust shop and got an o2 bung welded in near the rear differential. $20 and 15 mins and they were done. I then used ONE 42002 spark plug anti fouler spacer on the 02 sensor. I carefully worked my way up in drill bit sizes, drilling the hole out to 1/2" to fit a tiny portion of the 02 sensor nose through.

The o2 sensor now gets hot, like in a catalytic convertor. It also is only allowed to smell a tiny bit of un-burnt fumes, and well my Canadian supercharged 01 miata thinks it has a catalytic convertor in it still!

I followed all those directions, using one antifouler and nearly 15,000 km later, still no CEL

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I used two of them because the O2 sensor needed to poke through the first one. I wonder if your keeping the hole a close tolerance to the O2 sensor is the trick. Does that cover some of the holes in the sensor?

[down_hill_dog]

i drilled the hole out to 1/2" with a 1/2" drill bit and it was very VERY close to the holes in the sensor portion that goes in the pipe. I think thats exactly what happened, is it's actually plugging off the holes in the actual sensing portion, therefore it thinks my cat is working fine.

and just as a reference, with the midpipe on... I not only gained power and torque, but i was able to help kill ping. Which in-turn led to me turning down the settings on the J&S. (yes i know, i'm running old technology).

edit* still no CEL, and my car has seen everything from +20 deg C to -15 C (1-2 deg F). even on rich startup idle mode, no cel.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Looks like maybe I drilled mine a bit loose? Good news is that the spacers are really cheap. :) I also have the electronic module that Chuck gave me and I think I can do it in the PC-Pro as well. However, 100% of my time is now on the 05 and CARB so the 99 will have to wait. Seems the 05 is being a bit elusive to CARBable tuning but I'll get 'er done. :rolleyes:

[jikemenkins]

Ok so, i knew that you could use these auto-parts store spark plug spacers to add an extension to the end of your O2 sensor. However im not sure i understand what it getting drilled out?

The way i *thought* this trick was supposed to work is as folows: The plug spacer/anti-fouler is threaded(screwed) into the bung on your mid-pipe. Next, the O2 sensor in threaded(screwed) into the end of the spacer/anti-fouler. Is this the correct process?

The function here is to let the O2 sensor pick up *SOME* gases, but not all of them by keeping it out of the direct stream of flow. Is this correct? What needs drilled???

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Correct. It didn't work on my no cat 99. The secret seems to be drilling the hole with minimal clearance around the sensor to significantly limit the gas seen by the sensor.