Radiators

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think we posted about ThomS's radiator and how the 55mm Koyo ran so cool it never got up to temperature on a 105F day parked in the sun with the AC on full. Well, on the dyno, we monitored the heat from John's 2002 with a stock radiator. Temps were relatively cool, 75-85F but it still climbed like crazy under load on the dyno. As heat went up WHP went down.

I guess my point is that the stock radiator at the 200WHP level is under powered for the load. If you are going to track the car, I highly recommend an aftermarket radiator for your car. I had the PWR and found it great out here below 100F but the experience with Thom's Koyo 55mm led me to ourchase one for test. It is being installed in the 99 now and I will let you know if it makes a difference at the 213WHP level. I hope it is just the ticket for the higher WHP out here in hot country on our 91 octane. I could run the heck out of it with the PWR in the early hours. Hopefully it will now do the same in the heat of the day. More to follow.

[BlownMX5]

That 55mm Koyo is for NBs only, right? Is there anything comparable for the 1st gens?

Pat.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I don't know? You could check with Gary at Track Dog Racing (Gary@trackdogracing.com). I do believe he carries them and would surely know. He also handles the PWR. I really liked the PWR but the Koyo 55mm was awesome on ThomS's car. And soon to be tried on mine.

[socal pat]

Hey Tom, since wer're on the radiator/cooling subject....awhile back you posted that you used some Ace Hardware insulation to fill the gap between the shroud and the rad. Did you have any problem with the fact that the rad gets so hot? I would like to try this, but I'm afraid I'd get melted adhesive or isulation in my radiator fins.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Pat,

There is the low density grey stuff and the high density black stuff. We used the black stuff . It was ThomS's car. he can enlighten us if it has melted. I pick mkne up tomorrow but can't test it as Chuck stole the controller out of it for his. :( But I will work on that as soon as the new ones come in.

[chuckerants]

Tom,

Do you also plan on doing the parellel fan mod? It really helped keep my coolant temps down.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

yep. I have it done.

[jwalton]

Hey Tom, since wer're on the radiator/cooling subject....awhile back you posted that you used some Ace Hardware insulation to fill the gap between the shroud and the rad. Did you have any problem with the fact that the rad gets so hot? I would like to try this, but I'm afraid I'd get melted adhesive or isulation in my radiator fins.

I have the 55mm Koyo in my '01 and it works really well (assuming you fill the gap between the shroud and the rad as you described). I bought a roll of white, low density foam from Home Depot and stuffed it in as tight as I could without cracking the fan shroud plastic and there haven't been any issues with melting as far as I can tell. I used to have a 3rd Gen RX-7 and used the same foam for the same reasons on that car and the temps involved there were quite a bit warmer than anything I've seen on my Miata to date so I think that there won't be any melting issues with any reasonable foam you run across. Just make sure that it's in there relatively tightly so that when the fans turn on, they don't suck the foam in.

[Kyp J]

I put 2 rows of black 1/2", overlapping, 1 on the shroud and 1 on the radiator to close off the gap and the shroud side fell out when the glue heated up. I reinstalled both with 3M "Super Weatherstrip & Gasket Adhesive" and it seems to be holding. Kind of messy. On the metal shroud I used flat neoprene stuff and a bunch of duct tape . Looks bad

Would like to find out what the white stuff is that was mentioned. I couldn't find anything big enough to fit tightly. My gap is about 5/8".

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it's in and running. Drove it about 75 miles. Ambient around 80F. AC on full. NEVER got up to center. Normal is about 1/8" right of center. It never got above 3/16" LEFT of center. :) Now all I need to do is get another card in the 99 so I can get boost back. Painful to put my foot to the floor and all I get is 0. :( I miss my belt.

[Kyp J]

That sounds as bad as the Grocery store owner eating at the soup kitchen on skid row.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I relate it to the shoemakers kids that have no shoes. Funny, both my 99 and 05 were down for the same reason. Lost the fuel cards to customers. :)

The 05 is now back and running. Almost done 'tuning' so it can go to CARB. Lost 2-3 weeks due to a jump in sales :) but, as John left Monday, I am now back on the 05 and CARB. Fixed the O2 start up CEL issue. No more of that. Now all I need to do is confirm that the VTCS CEL is gone.

[chuckerants]

I relate it to the shoemakers kids that have no shoes. Funny, both my 99 and 05 were down for the same reason. Lost the fuel cards to customers. :)


Make that pestering, whining, annoying customers who know where you live. lol

[ThomS]

That 55mm Koyo is for NBs only, right? Is there anything comparable for the 1st gens?

Pat.

Pat, Yes Goodwin Racing has them and for NA's they cost $ 424.00 plus shipping. Tom what size is the stock radiator? www.Good-win-racing.com/

[Dr Evol]

Or you can by off eBay like I did. Here is a link to a 36mm Koyo for $344 delivered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KOYO-RACING-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-MAZDA-MIATA-90-97-MX-5-36_W0QQitemZ300039469489QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33602QQ rdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

And here is a link to a 53mm Koyo for $360 delivered.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KOYO-RACING-ALUMINUM-RADIATOR-MAZDA-MIATA-90-97-MX-5-R_W0QQitemZ300039469087QQihZ020QQcategoryZ33602QQr dZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

ThomS, I think the stock radiator is around 20-25mm.

I just like the idea that the 55mm Koyo won't get up to heat on normal driving. That, to me, means there is a lot of cooling capacity left for the track. With my PWR, I never had that. I need 225WHP in the 99 so I can out run Chip. ;)

[pat conlon]

Keep a watch for your a/c condensor bracket clearance:
http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=137470&highlight=koyo+55mm

Let us know how this thick core works with your front sway bar.

pat

<edit> I see looking on eBay that they show a 53mm model Koyo. Perhaps better clearence?

[Dr Evol]

Pat, I'm sure its the same radiator. I went with the smaller of the two to avoid any fitment issues.

P.S. - Pat, check your PMs, I sent you a message a while ago.

[Kyp J]

I put in a Koyo 37 mm and had a problem with nthe AC condenser being too close on the fat part on the passenger side. I moved the top of the condenser to the opposite side of the brackets (to the front I think) and had to tweek the tubes a little but got it in without major hassles.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There wasn't any fitment issues. We used the stock fans. We did have to seal the fans to the radiator. The standoffs space the fans back a good 1/2". I will take pictures later.

[ThomS]

I guess I would rather have the most cooling I could have, so why bother with a smaller rad, when this one fits just fine. I also would rather by from an authorized dealer then E-Bay. Buts tahts just me.. 424.00 is alot more than 360.00 but still worth it to me. I have a loyalty to Goodwin racing like I do for Fastforward and Tom. Both outstanding people which back what they say with actions. Now Tom is a friend, don't think of him as a supplier any longer.

[Dr Evol]

Loyalty to friends is an honorable trait; it’s a good path we should all try to follow.

Goodwin racing is a good company, they provide great service. I have ordered several items from Brian in he past including my mid-pipe about four months ago and my new wheels last month. But $424 plus $20 for shipping is about $100 more than eBay and I don’t have a lot of money to throw around these days.

[ThomS]

Very good points. Is E-bay all sales from private owners? Or are some of them dealers that you can return it is the item does not preform to it specs?
Because I also think that you should not pay for something that is not what it was represented to be.

[Dr Evol]

eBay has both, private sellers and companys doing business. The Koyos usually come from companies. All you have to do is check their buyer's feedback to see if they have been in business long and what people think of them. As with everything, you can always get burned, just make sure you buy from a reputable dealer.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I would also add that I did the dual fan mod (run both fans if either AC or Neat requires it) and the 05 runs cooler now even with the stock radiator and stock fans. Even with the AC on.

I recommend that mod to everybody. If you want, I'll list the wires to jumper for each year.

[ThomS]

I would also add that I did the dual fan mod (run both fans if either AC or Neat requires it) and the 05 runs cooler now even with the stock radiator and stock fans. Even with the AC on.

I recommend that mod to everybody. If you want, I'll list the wires to jumper for each year.
Very interested for both cars 02 and the 05. I will be installing the koyo 55 in the msm 05.this spring.
Please post the the wire list. Thanks

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hey Chip.

I think the Koyo55 is the key to the 120mm pulley. I was just beating on it on 91 octane and about 85F and the water temp never got up and no ping on the 115mm pulley. I've never been able to beat on it like that on 91 octane before. 12.5-13PSI. Ran like it was on 101 octane.

Might even have to cut a 125mm? :)

Thank you ThomS for letting me experiment with your radiator. ;)

[Dr Evol]

Fine, I will order one and have it in in time to test the 120 and JR-Pro.

Stay tuned, no pun intended!

[ThomS]

I would also add that I did the dual fan mod (run both fans if either AC or Neat requires it) and the 05 runs cooler now even with the stock radiator and stock fans. Even with the AC on.

I recommend that mod to everybody. If you want, I'll list the wires to jumper for each year.
Please Tom don't forget the list of wires to tap into for 02 and 05 msmif different from reg 05

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I am not familiar enough with the MSM. I know they went back to the 99/00 head and dropped the VVT. If you get a chance, pull one of the ECU connectors from the MSM and tell me if it has 2 rows of pins or 3 rows of pins?

[ThomS]

I am not familiar enough with the MSM. I know they went back to the 99/00 head and dropped the VVT. If you get a chance, pull one of the ECU connectors from the MSM and tell me if it has 2 rows of pins or 3 rows of pins?
OK will do that Tom. As soon as my hand stops shaking. ME touch the ECU? what about the 02? Thanks for your help.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The pins to connect together for the two fans are 2B and 2C for the 01-05 Miata. I can't answer for the MSM Miata until I know if it's ECU has 2 rows or 3 rows of pins. If it has three rows, it will be the same as the other 01-05 Miatas. The picture is of the lower connector on the ECU. As you can see it is the lowest two wires (R/Y and L/W) other than #1 injector wire (2A).

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/FanWires.jpg

[ThomS]

The pins to connect together for the two fans are 2B and 2C for the 01-05 Miata. I can't answer for the MSM Miata until I know if it's ECU has 2 rows or 3 rows of pins. If it has three rows, it will be the same as the other 01-05 Miatas. The picture is of the lower connector on the ECU. As you can see it is the lowest two wires (R/Y and L/W) other than #1 injector wire (2A).

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/FanWires.jpg

Boy you guys don't make this easy. first is it 2b and 2c or is r/y and L/w?
why are the top four colored? Does that have anything to do with what I want to do? Sorry to be such a pain, I need to take some auto mech. classes..:rolleyes:

[Serpico]

The top four highlighted in blue are the injector wires for the powercard/elf.

You want to jump the R/Y (red/yellow) & L/W (blue/white) for the fan mod.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I do what I can to keep you on your toes. ;)

The pins are numbered vertically. 2A (Y/B) on top, 2B (R/Y) in the middle and 2C (L/W) on the bottom. The four that are highlighted are the four injector wires. I figured they have taps on them for your JRPC and would aim you to the proper area. Good luck Joe.

[Serpico]

the 2B is the R/Y
the 2C is the L/W

[Serpico]

I'm not used to a forum where the moderator answers quicker than me...:)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think between you and me we have Thom covered. ;)

[ThomS]

Yep covering me, will take two people.. Lots of work here. But I will get it.
But Now I do understand. Just afraid to touch any wires on the ECU. You understand that Tom. Joe is hanging around here somehwere.LOL.

[ThomS]

WEll I have decided to not touch any wires by the ECU. If I can't get it done guess its not happening. Thanks for the help anyway. This one project-- NA.

[Kyp J]

Since I was wondering this anyway, is it a challenging process to get under the relay/fuse block on the passenger fender shelf where I think the fan relays are? I haven't tried since I wasn't that interested, but you might be able to jump the same wires there, thus insuring that is the intended target if you are nervous about getting the wrong wires near the ECU.

I jumpered the wires near the ECU and after soldering them, it worked. The 3M vampire tap I used first didn't work. I got nervous the first time when it didn't work and backed off 'till I heard many other people did it successfully.

[ThomS]

Pat,

There is the low density grey stuff and the high density black stuff. We used the black stuff . It was ThomS's car. he can enlighten us if it has melted. I pick mkne up tomorrow but can't test it as Chuck stole the controller out of it for his. :( But I will work on that as soon as the new ones come in.

Tom the black insulation worked very very well, NO PROBLEMS. I have run the car an a few very long trip and sometimes really testing the SC, I had no melting problems at all. This has been a really good fix since we did it in AZ. I still owe you for the insulation and will repay you some day. Again really great CUSTOMER SERVICE, outstanding. Tom ;)

[ThomS]

Since I was wondering this anyway, is it a challenging process to get under the relay/fuse block on the passenger fender shelf where I think the fan relays are? I haven't tried since I wasn't that interested, but you might be able to jump the same wires there, thus insuring that is the intended target if you are nervous about getting the wrong wires near the ECU.

I jumpered the wires near the ECU and after soldering them, it worked. The 3M vampire tap I used first didn't work. I got nervous the first time when it didn't work and backed off 'till I heard many other people did it successfully.
I would like to do this project but I am very nervous about cutting into any wires, Just ask Tom how I did when I was trying to do that when installing the SC. BUt I will look into this under the hood and try that maybe? Still would like to take some auto repair classes so I understand more.:confused:

[Banshee]

Do you guys have a problem with idle dip/stall when both fans come on at the same time?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have the dual fan mod on both cars and have no problem.

[Banshee]

Any problems installing the 55mm radiator? I hear there may be some problems with the sways or the a/c condenser.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

On my 99, it got close to the BIG RB sway but cleared OK. It also got so close to the auto-tensioner that the special tool I supply is a must. No room to use a 3/8" breaker bar.

It would be better if the standoffs were half as high. I also thought it would be awesome if they were studs instead of threaded standoffs.

[Kyp J]

Do you guys have a problem with idle dip/stall when both fans come on at the same time?
No........

[jwalton]

Any problems installing the 55mm radiator? I hear there may be some problems with the sways or the a/c condenser.

I have the 55mm Koyo and it intalls relatively straight forward. It will interfere with the AC condenser but you have three solutions. One (what I did), remove the rubber grommets between the condenser tabs and the body mounts. This allows you to rotate the condenser far enought forward to clear the radiator. Two, bend the body mounts forward though I'm not sure you can really do that... And, three, somehow fish the condensor through to the other side of the body mounts without breaking any of the hard lines and mount it forward of the mounts.

Another issue you really need to remember to address is when you remount the stock fans (if you're keeping them). With the fan standoffs the way they are (they have to be due to the stock fan shrouds centerline shape where the two fans but up against each other), you absolutely HAVE to stuff foam in all the shroud opennings to ensure that they pull air through the radiator vs. just recirculate the hot engine bay air.

[Vitamin J]

Anyone have any opinions on the Koyo 37mm radiator and the basic FFS Coldside kit on a '96? I live in Denver, so temps would be sub-100* most of the summer.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have the 37mm Koyo on the 05. Seems to work fine but I don't track that car.

[JMann]

I now have a 55 Koyo in mine and am very happy with it. The main thing I learned after burning up a motor on the track is to have the large radiator, but even more important IMO is to have a set of gauges that tells you the coolant temp and the oil temp. Even if you don't have a big radiator you can tell when you are overheating with good gauges before its to late as with the factory temp gaauge and back off for a few laps. But having said that you well overheat on a track without a larger radiator.

[Kyp J]

I now have a 55 Koyo in mine and am very happy with it. The main thing I learned after burning up a motor on the track is to have the large radiator, but even more important IMO is to have a set of gauges that tells you the coolant temp and the oil temp. Even if you don't have a big radiator you can tell when you are overheating with good gauges before its to late as with the factory temp gaauge and back off for a few laps. But having said that you well overheat on a track without a larger radiator.

Yep. Unless you back off once in a while. The gauges allow you to decide when.