Californians unite

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If you are into prayer, now is the time to pray. I dropped the 05 off at CARB testing today. I will know Pass/Fail by Friday. We passed steps 1-4 today. Only about 20 more tests to go. :) But they are they hard ones. :(

I have to add that it runs soooooo sweet that I just feel it has to pass. It rolls in and out of boost like it isn't even boosted. But the instant change from 60-80 in 5th lets you know it is. :) The new PC-Pro control circuit cures all of the inherent ills of O2 clamps.

[chuckerants]

Wow, I didn't realize you were going to drop it off today?!?

Good luck Tom.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Now you understand why I didn't push too hard when you said you couldn't stay for lunch. ;)

[99mx5]

<Chant>
OOOhhmmmm..... OOOhhhmmmmm..... OOOhhhmmm.....
</Chant>


;)

[Bo0osted]

You sent it in with the powercard pro? What changes did you do to get rid of that sporatic CEL?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I wish you guys would stop asking about that sporadic CEL. I am afraid you will JINX the tests. :) Now I have to go knock on wood.

I tried everything to get it to come back on. I think the latest changes to the PC-Pro software might have helped. No more hard starts. That's when it seemed to come on. I also added the check valve and the small "vacuum chamber" to the VTCS circuit.

[Mathrips]

Extra injector running off the SS or the PC-pro?

Do you know how difficult it is to rally one's gearhead friends together for a candle light session at the last minute? Beer is the answer to so many questions.

Fingers crossed.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If beer will get a prayer group together, tell me where to send it.

Sorry it was last minute. I have been promising it for a couple weeks now since the letter came but the VTCS CELs got in the way. They had an opening if I got it in yesterday afternoon so I did. We ran the first four (simple) tests while I was there. One was to confirm a redline run 10PSI max boost. They said they prefer the client to do the redline run. I said strap her down to the dyno and let's go. He said. No time today, we,ll do it on the street. I said city street, Mesa, 4th gear, redline run and you want me to drive? I don't think so. He said 2nd would do as all they wanted to see was that I wouldn't pass 10PSI. Just so you know, Mesa has two cops for every civilian, cameras at every intersection and some speed cameras that are mobile here and there. Well, in the name of science, I pulled out on to Broadway at near rush hour and, as luck would have it, a Mustang GT was there. :) Redline run was successful and the tech was very impressed. ;) Now, about that cop.................................

[99mx5]

So you smoked a Mustang GT in the name of science!
...with the requirement of CARB to hit redline and max boost :)
LOL

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Probably wouldn't have done any good but, if I had been pulled over, that would have been my excuse. ;)

[chuckerants]

Damn, I miss all the fun.

I that was the CARB people you were on the phone to when I left.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. It was them I was talking to when you said goodbye.

[cmetzner]

How come the changes to VICS and other initials that I do not understand doesn't cause a fail of the CARB test?

Or, does it mean that all cars will have to include your fixes to be CARB approved?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They will have to include our fixes on coldsides to be approved. You still have the stock manifold so you still have the stuff we took out. If/When I get the coldside approval (one step at a time), I will work on the hotside. I was told by ARB that it might not be much of a problem.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Word back after day 1 is that we passed todays tests with flying colors.. However, Today was the easy day. Tomorrow is the hard day and Thursday is the near impossible tests.

[socal pat]

Not sure if it means much, but I have a good feeling about this. We will all have a good weekend. I think we should have a pre-arranged toast time...like 5:00 pm Saturday we can all raise a glass for Tom and FFSC.

[jikemenkins]

Toast time sounds like a good idea. Im game

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have a bottle of good California wine waiting for the day it passes. I will gladly toast to all WHEN it does. See, my confidence is growing. ;)

[pat conlon]

I have a bottle of good California wine waiting for the day it passes. I will gladly toast to all WHEN it does. See, my confidence is growing. ;)

Tom, not if, but when you pass, you better have a bunch of people hired and ready to go 'cause you amigo are going to get very, very, busy.

Good thoughts comming to you from Palm Desert.

Pat

[chuckerants]

I just realized that I still have a bottle of California Sparkling Wine in the fridge from when I moved here. As soon as we get the good news, that bottle is getting opened. :D

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Tuesday's report "The vehicle received a drain and 40% fill of Cal Phase II after the dyno derivations. Tomorrow it will receive its LA-4 prep and canister load. Thursday, it will receive its FTP. If we can fit the SFTP into our schedule Thursday, we could finish it then. If not, we will perform the SFTP on Friday."

Wednesday's report "No real test today. We have made it so we can now test on the dyno, so yes it is "setup"." It is my understanding that once they did the "ramp down" tests to calibrate their equipment to match the 05 Miata (yesterday and this morning) that it has to sit in the ambient controlled room for 18 hours before the FTP.

Good, bad or indifferent, I will post the updates here.

[Dr Evol]

Sounds good Tom, good luck!

I have a few bottles of Ridge Zin ready to go!

Chip

[Steve]

Hey Tom,

Positive thoughts coming your way on behalf of the enitre Miata community of Californistan.

BTW, when you say SFTP, are they doing a US06 or a SC03?

Steve

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They are doing FTP and SFTP. US06/SC03 both.

[chuckerants]

Hey Tom,

Positive thoughts coming your way on behalf of the enitre Miata community of Californistan.

BTW, when you say SFTP, are they doing a US06 or a SC03?

Steve

Whatchoo talkin about Willis? How about that in English? ;)

[Steve]

Those are two names of Supplemental Federal Test Procedures (SFTP's.)

The SC03 is like a small part of the larger FTP (the standard emission test cars have been certified to since the mid 70's,) but run with the AC on.

The US06 is the one that's tough: it's hard accelerations (so hard many lower-powered cars can't keep the profile) right from the start. For example, just a few seconds after engine start you're hard on the gas up to about 45mph, come to a stop and gas it up again to 70 mph. It runs as high as 80mph at it's peak. This test was developed to reflect how driving styles have changed in recent years (thanks in part to more powerful cars and the public's generally more agressive driving habits.) The US06 is what the 04-and-newer Miatas are certified to, so that's why the test has to be done in addition to the standard FTP.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They are doing both SC03 and US06. The acceleration US06 is at 3MPH/second rate of change. He said some small cars just can't do it. I thought he said 45-85 at that rate of change? Could be wrong. In any case Thursday is a major day. Could all be done then. The 05 is running really clean under hard but not WOT. It pops to around 12:1 and then eases rapidly to 13 or 13.5:1 as the change in rate of rise levels. IOW, as th e "load" stabilizes. It is load based and I have the load curve set pretty well. The math is fast which is why I put the 5th on the second unit. As the 5th doesn't start to come on until 5PSI, it is not much of a factor until you go WOT. At which point it hits about 7PSI and climbs to 10PSI. They wont need that much throttle to make 3MPH/second. However, I don't know what gear they will do it in. However, however, :) I do have the load balanced pretty well so it compensates well for each different gear. Well, I have second guessed the whole thing and it will pass or not pass but is out of my hands now.

[Banshee]

If beer will get a prayer group together, tell me where to send it.

Sorry it was last minute. I have been promising it for a couple weeks now since the letter came but the VTCS CELs got in the way. They had an opening if I got it in yesterday afternoon so I did. We ran the first four (simple) tests while I was there. One was to confirm a redline run 10PSI max boost. They said they prefer the client to do the redline run. I said strap her down to the dyno and let's go. He said. No time today, we,ll do it on the street. I said city street, Mesa, 4th gear, redline run and you want me to drive? I don't think so. He said 2nd would do as all they wanted to see was that I wouldn't pass 10PSI. Just so you know, Mesa has two cops for every civilian, cameras at every intersection and some speed cameras that are mobile here and there. Well, in the name of science, I pulled out on to Broadway at near rush hour and, as luck would have it, a Mustang GT was there. :) Redline run was successful and the tech was very impressed. ;) Now, about that cop.................................



why does it have to be a 10psi max? Also what was the final psi at redline?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The 05 was 10PSI at redline. It had to be 10 PSI max because they asked what max was and I said 10PSI. If I had been smart, I would have said 15 but, I think it also couldn't be under very far.

[Hrogi]

We had a car rally last night and this topic came up last night.
it is great to see there is a car in for testing...

I know I am very interested in this kit hitting the marker my self...

on monday I will have a few more question... I do not want to jinkx the test.

[pat conlon]

Thursday afternoon...Good thoughts still coming from Palm Desert.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, the good news and the bad news.

Well, it passed with flying colors on the numbers for FTP but tossed the CEL for the VTCS. We are waiting to finish the SFTP tests until we hear what CARB wants to do with the CEL for a non-existant device. The great news is that we were well within specs on the tests so far. I know the SFTP tests are more strict but I think we will pass those as well.

I think/hope they will let us finish the tests as the CEL has no effect on the numbers. I should know more in the morning.

[Banshee]

For the longest time, you never had any problems with the vtcs cel. But now you simply can't get rid of them. What changed in the setup? I have a 01, and had the kit install for 10months now. Never had those canister/check valve hooked up, and never threw that cel. Of course I also have the old vacuum hose setup.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think that is part of my problem. I cleaned up the vacuum routing. I should have left well enough alone. ;) It's all Ari's fault. :) Actually, I didn't have a choice. It had to be like the instruction manual. I have a feeling it is a timing/race issue and that is why they installed the "delay" valve. I just need a bigger "vacuum chamber".

[99mx5]

Whoa Tom, the blame for this would make me a target for many a Kalifornican.
Actually, Im from Torrance, Calif. ;)

Oddly enough, the vacuum change isnt a drastic one. I have yet to see a CEL on my '99.
In fact, the vacuum routing is exactly the same as before for the extra devices that are on the 01+ system.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You neatness freaks are a worrisome bunch. :twisted:

[Hrogi]

Well it is Friday now any word??

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Nothing new since last night. I think my contact at ARB is out till Monday. :(

[chuckerants]

Nothing new since last night. I think my contact at ARB is out till Monday. :(

Ah fer cryin out loud. :(

[99mx5]

Tom,
Does CARB have the distinction of critical CELs and non-critical ones?
Seems like the VTCS is non emissions related?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I certainly hope so. Especially since this s for a non-existant device. Only time will tell.

[Banshee]

are you running the 105 pulley on the 05 with 2 pc-pro?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes. That is correct.

[Wilsman00]

I anxiously await the results! Hopefully everything goes smoothly.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Drum roll please. :)

They are letting us carry on. Wiser heads have prevailed. :):):)

[Andymon]

SUHWHEEEEET!!!
---------Andymon

[ThomS]

:D :D :D :D I am SO glad for you ! ! !

[Mathrips]

Wow!
Good for us.

[99mx5]

Tom,
Will they clear the CEL before the next round of tests or leave it on?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes, we cleared the CEL and then had to put 5 starts and stops and 50 miles on it to reset everything. They will either run the remaining tests tomorrow or Wednesday. We are down to pass/fail at this point. Do you have any idea what it is like to try and put 50 miles on a car at rush hour on city streets?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, OK then. VTCS is fixed permanently, I believe. It tossed a "pending code" in this morning's test sooooooo, I trotted over to AutoZone and bought some electronics. Cheap, easy to install and it appears to work just swell. In the future kits with the harnesses, I will insert the electronics right into the harness so you will be able to simply pull all that crap off the manifold and store it with the rest of the left over spare parts. :)

No more 1512 or 1518, 01-03 Miatas or 2004 or 2008, 04-05 Miatas.

[chuckerants]

So? Is it done yet??? Did it pass???????

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Patience, grasshopper. Tomorrow is do or die day.

[socal pat]

This was meant to be Tom. I'm not nervous, just ready!

[Kyp J]

Well, OK then. VTCS is fixed permanently, I believe. It tossed a "pending code" in this morning's test sooooooo, I trotted over to AutoZone and bought some electronics. Cheap, easy to install and it appears to work just swell. In the future kits with the harnesses, I will insert the electronics right into the harness so you will be able to simply pull all that crap off the manifold and store it with the rest of the left over spare parts. :)

No more 1512 or 1518, 01-03 Miatas or 2004 or 2008, 04-05 Miatas.


Did you I.D. the signals that were racing?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep.

As soon as the tests are done and I can get some more time to confirm the fix, I will publish it. It is cheap and will take you 5 minutes to make and install. Mine cost me ~$15 for parts but I think I can cut that in half.

[Kyp J]

Resister and cap. or an IC chip?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Relay. Cheap and simple. Don't know why I didn't think of it sooner? After all, I am an electrical Engineer by degree. :) Guess I needed somebody to threaten me with one last chance, get it right. CARB understood that it has ZERO effect on the tests but the rules also say "no CEL". I sat down yesterday with the Code description and the light came on (pun intended). It was blatently obvious. Now all we need is a couple days to confirm it works.

Simple generic relay with the coil connected where the VTCS solenoid coil used to be and NO (Normally Open) contacts connected across the wires from where the VTCS pressure switch used to be.

[Kyp J]

So all it is looking for is the appropriate reaction to the vacuum solenoid at the pressure switch with no time delay? Wonder what the "delay" check valve did?

Where can I get a copy of the "Code" description? By that I assume you are referring to the program code for the PCM?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

All the delay valve did, I think, was add to the confusion.

I read the CEL code description here. Look up 1512 and 1518.

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=166

[Kyp J]

Oh. That "code".

Seems pretty obvious when you look at the picture, doesn't it. I don't think I ever saw that or didn't pay it any attention if I did.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The latest

"Tom

We performed the unsampled FTP, then checked the codes and monitors. All the monitors are now complete and there are no DTCs or pending codes in the PCM. We will continue on with the US06 and SC03."

Guess the fix works. :)

[Hrogi]

That is great to hear...

[99mx5]

Fortunately, the EGR valve seems to be the same way :)

Look at codes 0401 and 0402 in that same manual. The EGR Boost sensor must see a fixed amount of change when the EGR opens or closes.



Congrats!!!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, we passed SC03 but failed US06.

I picked up a CO and HC analyzer and my son will drop it off at the calibration lab tomorrow for calibration/certification. Then I will do dyno testing using that to bring down the numbers.

Guess it just couldn't pass the pedal to the floor test. It put out a bit too much NC and CO.

However, we will simply write off that $5K and start over. We have too much invested to give up now.

[Red Lightning]

Thanks Tom, I am glad you are determined to see this through. The analyzers probably cost at least as much as the test, so I'd say you've burn off any 'contigency' dollars. Add in gross amounts of fresh dyno time and and a second set of testing fees and your indomitable resolution is unquestioned. I am empowered by your behavior under duress. Go! Tom! Go!

Again Thanks, Lyle

[Kyp J]

I don't know what those test numbers mean, but apparently have something to do with CO and HCs. Did you put in a new Cat before the tests started?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. CO and HC were high. Original cat. 20,000 miles. If you put in a new cat, you have to put 5,000 miles on it to 'season' it before you are allowed to test.

[Banshee]

What will you be able to ajust to lower the emession? Are you just going to lean out the mixture?

[Wilsman00]

Too bad it didn't pass but it sounds like you are very close, good luck! You'll get it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just picked it up. Well, it was ONLY $4700. ;) We need to take a hard look at it and find out why. Kind of think it might be the #4 exhaust valve still sticking randomly. Just don't know yet. But I will get it right.

[J_Man]

IMO, you're running these kits way too rich. Lean them out for better emissions. In mine I am running areound 12.8:1 - 13.0:1 AFR readings

[chuckerants]

IMO, you're running these kits way too rich. Lean them out for better emissions. In mine I am running areound 12.8:1 - 13.0:1 AFR readings

Aren't you running water injection? When you run WI, you can run leaner than without correct?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Actually, we found the sticky #4 exhaust valve to be the culprit. We will get it fixed this week and re-submit. Under certain conditions on and off boost it is still sticking open slightly. That allows the fresh air/fuel to be pushed right into the exhaust. That caused the failure. We were well within specs except for some, not all, transitions.

[J_Man]

Aren't you running water injection? When you run WI, you can run leaner than without correct?

Yes, but the water unlike fuel won't affect the emissions in a bad way. If you're running too rich you'll end up with high HC and CO. If you run too lean you'll end up with high NOX readings. The bad thing is that the AFR window where the cat convertor functions is very tiny - even a small afr change (i.e. even 0.2 AFR up or down changes the emissions in a bad way)

The best way to tune it is with the HC, CO, NOX analyzer in the tail pipe (the one which every smog station in california has)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, as I'm sure you know, when you are going for certification you can only use things that are included with the kit.

[J_Man]

Well, as I'm sure you know, when you are going for certification you can only use things that are included with the kit.

I am talking before going to certification ;) When I bring mine to a test-only smog station they don't let me touch it either. But before going there you can always put it on a dyno with a smog equipment in the tail pipe and find these tiny AFR windows at different rpm and load levels where the cat works best.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep. Got one this week and will have it Tuesday from the certification lab. I thought I already posted that?

[J_Man]

Yep. Got one this week and will have it Tuesday from the certification lab. I thought I already posted that?

Cool. Maybe I missed that post. Yup that's the only way to find the optimum emission numbers. That's what I've found when tweaking mine - the cat efficiency window is very tiny and outside on the one side NOX skyrockets on the other the HC and CO go up.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I just took a look for a hotsider and the two systems are different. The VTCS has a solenoid and the EGR is a stepper motor that can be positioned, not just on/off. The VTCS has a pressure switch looking for either pressure or no pressure and the EGR has a pressure sensor (0-5 VDC out) and is looking for more or less pressure. I don't think you can do it with a relay.

Fortunately, the EGR valve seems to be the same way :)

Look at codes 0401 and 0402 in that same manual. The EGR Boost sensor must see a fixed amount of change when the EGR opens or closes.



Congrats!!!

[J_Man]

the EGR is a stepper motor that can be positioned, not just on/off.

Wow, a stepper motor? Is this on the new cars or OBD-II related? - I've never heard about such so far. In the two Mazdas I have - Miata and 626 (both OBD-I) - the EGR actuator is a solenoid. It is just an on/off switch activating the vacuum port and that's the only thing the ECU uses to activate the EGR system. The EGR valve and the EGR sensor are variable though - the EGR sensor is a potentiometer which measure how much did the EGR valve move. But no stepper motors - just a simple solenoid activating the vacuum (and an extra one in the Miata for venting). I've never seen Mazda using stepper motors so under the hood so far.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

See, the more you read the more you learn. Now you know something new. :) I do believe it is OBD-II and that would make it 96+, I believe.

[Steve]

An electric EGR valve is a common item on newer (2000-and-up) cars.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Actually 99 and up. The 94-97 use two solenoids for positioning. Not sure about the pre-94. I do believe the 96+ are all checked by OBD-II. Again, I know the 99+ are but I think the 96/97 are also monitored by OBD-II.

[J_Man]

Not sure about the pre-94.

The '90-'93 Miatas don't have EGR. Mazda put the EGR system in the Miata first time in '94

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not as long as you keep the stock manifold. Nobody that I know of is having a EGR code problem with a coldside. Only hotside person I know of with a CEL problem has an R4 manifold.

Coldsiders, let me know if that isn't true. But I have had no EGR CEL problem feedback.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That's interesting? I read your post Kyp. Then made a reply and my reply is showing before your post. How'd I do that??????

[Kyp J]

Just out of curiosity, do you have to remove EGR hardware to put in a hotside?

[Kyp J]

Look at the time stamps. Apparently, the forum software is looking at the local time for the poster.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Darn. I wish I had had the CO/HC analyzer in the beginning. I could have saved some time and money. Needless to say, it will pass the next time. I had a couple serious A/F errors in my program. Took 20 minutes of re-programming to get HC down from off the charts at times to negligable. CO dropped but then we saw that CO would climb when I would lift. Injectors off and CO rising??? Time for a web search. Found that if CO goes up when decelerating, that typically means fuel contamination in the oil that vapors off to the PCV valve. Where the H would that come from. Oh yeah, I forgot, The 05 is 3 quarts oil and 1 quart deisel fuel to clear the sticky valve. LOL. Tomorrow, an oil and filter change should help that.

Just so ya know. HC's were, at times, hitting 1000 on the meter (maximum it can read). They are now 10-30 which is almost unmeasurable from idle to cruise to WOT. The CO was hitting at times 10.00% (maximum it can read). It now hits 1-3% but basically only under decel and I believe that is from the oil.

Californians, there is hope. This was my first ever attempt at CARB. I am now older and wiser and I think it is in the bag. Thanks goodness for instrumentation.

[Kyp J]

I don't quite understand how a valve can stick open (you were talking about an exhaust valve, right?) with that much spring tension without being bent or how diesel fuel could clean it enough to insure it won't happen again. For this Carb thing, wouldn't it be worth pulling the head and do something drastic to it? Like fix it?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

For the better part of a year, it sat up at the shop waiting for CARB. They would start it in the morning, move it to the parking lot, shut it off. At night, they would start it up, drive it in the shop and shut it off. That really mucked up the oil and the valve guide just gummed up. We threw some Rislone (basically diesel fuel) in fresh oil and it cleaned everything real well. I just didn't think it would matter so I didn't change it before going for the tests.

Running an engine twice a day for 2 minutes each time does not let it warm up and the oil doesn't get a chance to burn off the volitals. It only took a couple days to clean everything. I should have changed the oil then.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, education is never cheap. I did the oil change. Now my CO is basically 0.01%. instead of 3.00-5.00%. When I run the RPM up and decelerate, the CO stays at 0.0%. Even my HC numbers are a lot less. I guess 25% fuel in the oil is not CARB friendly. :) I will play with it the rest of the week and send it back to the lab Monday. This time we are home free, I'll bet.

[Kyp J]

Do you have to take it to Calif. for the tests or is CARB something done in other states as well?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The testing lab is here in Arizona.

[cmetzner]

Tom,

Do you know about the remainder of the process? Let's say that the lab passes the car next week. Then you/they send the paperwork to the ARB here in Calif. How long until the ARB rules on the kit and issues a number?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is my understanding that I will get the EO in a couple weeks (2-3). However, I've never done this before and FM says they still don't have the EO even though they passed CARB with the UBER and that has been over a year.

[Steve]

It is my understanding that I will get the EO in a couple weeks (2-3). However, I've never done this before and FM says they still don't have the EO even though they passed CARB with the UBER and that has been over a year.

That's what some say... others say differently. The real story may never be told.

It should not take long once the (passing) results are in. Once they issue you a number you can start engraving it on your tensioners with all the kits you ship from then on. Those of us with "pre-carb" kits comply by updating to the latest parts (as described in your application papers) and then we're legal too.

[Fluffy Pumpkin]

FM used my car, a 2004 LS, for their last attempt at CARB testing. This was back in the spring of 2005. They tried a very aggressive schedule: both the SC and the turbo systems tested on the same test car in only a 1-week period.

Well, we passed SC03 but failed US06.

IIUC this is what happened to FM. (I wasn't around for the testing, which took place in LA at the AAA/SEMA certification facility, since I was living in San Jose at the time.) They first tested the SC but only were able to pass the tests sufficient for the 2003 and earlier models. That additional testing which Tom identified as the USO6 apparently was their problem. Since they were time-constrained, they decided to stop there and move onto turbo testing. FM read their test letter as stating that this would give them an EO for the SC on 2003 and earlier cars. But weeks later ARB retroactively "clarified" that the test letter required them ACTUALLY TEST on a 2003 model year car. I believe FM has never commented on this because they don't want any bad blood between them and ARB.

They then pulled the SC off my car and installed an FMII. My car had the stock clutch in it and FM didn't originally think this would be a problem with the testing. Our arrangement was that they would return the car to me in Voodoo I configuration since that's what I paid for (parts only), so they didn't budget in a new clutch. But they failed almost immediately since the clutch started slipping (presumably on the USO6 test). They had to abort the test, go scrounge up a better clutch, and install it into my car. This only gave them a couple of days to tweak the installation and perform the testing. They were throwing a CEL at certain WOT test points (IIRC P0300 random misfire). This was later diagnosed as caused by a ground loop in the grounds for the PB link and the coupling with the 2004-2005 COP ignition.

But by the time FM got ready to retest they dissolved their relationship with Bell so any future testing would have been moot. Besides, IIUC ARB retroactively decided that the 2004 and 2005 models WERE different so they needed to use a 2005, not a 2004 like mine. Plus I relocated to Boise in the interim.

- Dennis

[Andymon]

I've always wondered what the story was behind the Uber & CARB. I'd given up hope until I stumbled on this site. I've been out of the loop lately with my car stuff, and was attempting to catch up when I found that the force behind FI somehow managed to march on without me....
---------Andymon

[ralph argenal]

Tom,

Has the car been taken back for re-testing?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is scheduled for a week from today. :) We found the 'program' error in the PC-Pro so I have every confidence it will pass this time. No rich HC on acceleration ('program error'. And no high CO on Deceleration (Rislone in the oil). I don't know about NOx though? I don't have a sniffer for that. But I think NOx is only a problem if you get too lean.

We should have all the Pass/Fail results by next Wednesday. Tell your spouses that CARB approved kits make great Christmas Presents. :)

Pass. Pass. Pass. Pass. Pass. Pass. Pass.

[mike whitehouse]

Tom,
I am praying. I am praying!

I guess I need to show this to my wife.

[Mathrips]

Once again the force is magnified as it focuses on a single event.
This to shall pass, takes on new meaning.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Today and tomorrow are the last days of tuning before she goes back. I have found some interesting quirks about the 01-05 ECU fueling characteristics. I have also found the VVT is worth only a couple WHP under boost and not hardly worth the effort to try and control. More important is the fuel supply to make the engine smooth. If it is maintained smooth, the VVT changes state smoothly and all is right with the universe. :) If the ECU sees anything it doesn't like (too rich, too lean, ping, knock, etc) it pulls timing and pulls the VVT back. In that case 2-3 WHP loss becomes 20-30 WHP loss in a hurry.

[G_Shock"00"]

Tom,
I am new to the forum and have just purchased a "00" Miata here in Northern California:D . The car is all stock with a 5sp and I am now starting my build. I have read so many forums about turbo and superchargers, hotside and coolside......WOW, so much information to digest. The girlfriend is pondering how in the world I can spend endless hours each night reading these forums:confused: . I love it!:cool: After all the information I was able to push into my cranium I have decided to go with this guy who makes a coolside system with this great e-cool 5th injector. Yes Tom, I think you have a fantastic product and you are so dedicated to get CARB approved that I would not select another product.

I have a few questions for all of you. I see that in the posts on the forums everyone is talking RWHP. From what I have seen, the stock Miata has around 110RWHP(Correct me if you see anything that isn't correct, I am very new to this). What will the RWHP be for the California kits? Same as the other state kits(190RWHP). I know CA kits will have a set non adjustable PC-Pro card but will that drop the power much? My main interest is what kind of performance in numbers can you see with this kit. 0-60MPH time, 5th gear roll on and such. I have never driven a turbo or supercharged miata so I dont know what to expect. I have driven SVT Cobra Mustangs, C5 Vetts and such but no FI Miatas. All information is welcome.

Thanks for the information ahead of time. And I am glad to see a forum with so many people interested in helping others out.

[99mx5]

The car that Tom is using for CARB is a CA car. Its also a 2005, which has VVT and it made ~192RWHP. The 99 and 00 have lower compression and arent VVT, which are known to be less fickle to boost than the 01+ VVT engines.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, if all goes well over the holiday weekend, it will go back for the next try on Monday. We finished the dyno calibration today. It runs awesome.

At the worst, a perfectly legal California kit MIGHT lose 5WHP from what I can see. Most of that will be lost to the stock CAT. So, worst case will be 185WHP for a stock CARB kit.

The 05 still has the stock radiator and the stock exhaust. We hit 188 they other day. I will get some real numbers after I replace the radiator after the CRAB tests. I have purchaesd a 55mm Koyo for it but can't install until after the tests. The radiator is perfectly CARB legal BUT they require the test car to be bone stock EXCEPT for those things included in my kit. I love the Koyo 55mm so much I almost considered upping the price and including one but some people already have one. The heat goes high pretty quick out here on the dyno with 190WHP on an 01-05 with a stock radiator and WHP is inversly proportional to heat. With this said, I highly recommend that anyone with my kit not try to make high WHP on the stock radiator. Especially 01-05 10:1 CR cars.

We also don't push it to redline too often as it has a stock clutch and I need that to last too. :)

110WHP is about right. The range appears to be 105-115. We add 85WHP typically. The typical stock kit ranges from 190 - 200. With the stock kit, you are a good match for the STOCK Cobra Mustang on the track. On a straight line, I think it will take you but not by much. You should be in the low 14's (14.0 to 14.2). I have seen a couple Mustang Cobras here at the dyno that have been toyed with that make ~500WHP. They will spank you pretty bad. :( But straight lines are not what Miatas were made for. On a track, what they gain on the straight, you will easily compensate for in the turns.

This video is my 99 (~205WHP at the time. On 15,000 mile old street tires and stock suspension with a passenger for ballast to give the Mustangs a little help :)). The Mustangs are Mustang Cobras. They have exery ounce of unnecessary weight removed, Goodyear track tires (new every week), straight exhaust and tuned to the max. All three cars have professional drivers.

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/Ari2.wmv

My 99 will hold it's own with the C5 Corvettes at Bondurant as well. The C6 Corvettes and the Z06 Corvettes are out of my league.

Hope that helps. BTW, I now have good track tires for the 99 as well as JIC suspension and 213 WHP. :) Soon as I finish CARB for the 05, I am going to see how far the PC-Pro will take the 99. I think there is 220 in it with the Koyo 55mm radiator. Engine heat was getting me before with the PWR radiator but the Koyo fixed that.

[99mx5]

HAHAHA!! I wont ever forget the time we had there!
It was the best time I had being a ballast weight LOL

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I always knew you were good for something. Ballast was needed to give the Mustang Cobras a fighting chance. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

here is Ari's car on the same day. http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/Ari-1.wmv

I forget what WHP he had at the time but I think it was under 190. He will have to help out there. But, as you can see, it did right well with the Mustangs too. ;) I believe he had street tires and stock suspension other than better sway bars.

[99mx5]

My car had a 100mm crank pulley and this was before E-Cool. My best dyno was 177RWHP at the time. I currently run with a 105mm pulley and E-Cool. A bad clutch kept me from getting an accurate dyno.

[mike whitehouse]

OOPS! My wife just caught me watching the video. I expect stronger words to follow. :(

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I can't wait for your autocross review of my 99 in January.

[mike whitehouse]

I can't wait to drive it! :D I really was impressed with how the car behaved on the road especially in traffic.

We should be on a very good concrete surface so the tires and suspension will be able to work well. This is a good thing.

[G_Shock"00"]

All my questions have been answered. After seeing the video I have an idea of what to expect. By the end of the year I should have my sways, springs and shocks all taken care of. After the new year my tax return is all going to the FFS Coolside. Thanks again for the quick reply from all. I am going to start a suspension thread for some first hand experiences with suspension configuration for street and track. Cant wait for that SC.....

[Mathrips]

G shock,
I have a 99 in Santa Cruz (Felton actually) with a coldside (No e-cool yet, waiting for the new PC). Has Tein flex suspension and 225 toyo t1s tires. If you would like a ride let me know. I have never driven a Vette newer than a 59, but this is pretty darn quick for a little car, straight or curvy) .
Kingdon

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho. It's back to CARB we go.

Soooo, we should have word by Wednesday at the latest.

Here's what I know about the 05 at the moment:

It runs smooth as glass.
The CO and HC are under 3.5% and 150 ppm, respectively, at any time.
Idle CO is zero.
Deceleration CO (was 6-7%) is now zero.
Idle HC is ~80 ppm.
Acceleration HC under any circumstance is under 150 ppm.
A/F under ANY circumstance never wanders out of the 12-13:1 range under boost. No matter what gear or what RPM.
We dyno tested acceleration in 5th gear from as low as 1000 RPM and it simply accelerates and stays within 12-13:1. Same in 2nd and 4th gears. The PC-Pro does as advertised and compensates for load/gear.
Tested as high as 5500 feet and altitude correction works flawlessly. Will re-test at higher altitudes when I have time.
Tested my wife's 2004 Malibu. The 05 Miata was cleaner on CO and HC.
Tested a 2006 Hemi SRT Charger. The 05 was as clean on CO and cleaner on HC.
Tested a 2000 Contour SVT. It would never pass. :biggrin:

I don't have a way to test for NOx but I believe that only gets bad if you go lean? I have no equipment to test it so Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho. It's off to CARB we go. :rolleyes:

I went back and looked at the stock dyno runs for the 05 and I could lay the A/F curves from the Wednesday dyno right on top of them. Not bad for 190 vs. 110 WHP. There is hope.

[chuckerants]

I had a chance to drive the 05 again and I'd have to say that it really is very refined in manner.

Whereas my 99 is loud, obnoxious and obvious, the 05 is very civilized, quiet and well mannered. However, the 05 is so quiet and well mannered that you don't realized that you are going 80 or 90 MPH. Not that I'd do something like that. lol

Seriously, I have had many opportunities to drive the 05 over the last 7~8 months and it seems to get more and more "civilized" every time I drive it. Now, it seems so well mannered that you almost don't even realize the car has a supercharger. It is that quiet.

[Mathrips]

Thanks some more for all your efforts to get CARB certification Tom. It is a big deciding point for many in Calif.
Kingdon

[99mx5]

...Whereas my 99 is loud, obnoxious and obvious...


Chuck, sometimes intimidation is even more fun ;)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it's back at the lab. Time will tell. This time they are going to run US06 first. So I should know tomorrow. If we pass US06, the rest of the tests are a shoe-in as we passed them before and it is a LOT cleaner now. Besides, no more VTCS CELs. :biggrin:

[Mathrips]

We are cheering for you in our own quiet way.

[mike whitehouse]

Still praying!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Failed. :(

[G_Shock"00"]

No!!!!!!! Please make that a joke.

[lovemx5]

Why? CO and HC levels? NOx? CEL?

[mike whitehouse]

Nooo! :( Can you tell us what the problem was on the test?

[socal pat]

On my way home from work I saw a dog and a cat having sex, then my neighbors car coasted uphill.... something is wrong with the universe!!!!

[Dr Evol]

Once Cali falls into the sea, this will all seem so much less important! :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Elphaba]

POOP. What is wrong with those people? I hope that did'nt cost you another 5 large...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

They want to insure that the people in California have clean air to breathe. As a matter of fact, on I-10 around Palm Springs, they have installed a 1000 huge electric fans to blow air form Arizona into California.

http://www.lightningfield.com/extra/0109windmills/F00018.html

Take a look here and let me know what you think.

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=350

As you all know, here in Arizona we have a LOT of sand. :) Back 10 or so years ago, the city of Tucson was fined by the Federal department of air quality (EPA?) for having too much silica (sand dust) in the air. Believe it or not!

[ralph argenal]

Tom,

I drank salty beer all weekend long. Now for the question.

What is your plan moving forward?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

CARB will issue a NEW test letter in the next couple days. Then I take the car back for re-testing of the previous tests other than US06/SC03. I have passed those tests already with the first settings. The car is now even cleaner so those tests will be a breeze. If I pass those tests by a significant margin, I will be able to apply for inclusion of the hotsides as soon as I start selling them and have a proper manual like the instruction manual for the coldsides.

To sum it up, I expect to have a Coldside CARB EO# by the first of the year. Hotside CARB EO# to follow shortly thereafter.

[ralph argenal]

Tom,

Thank you for the quick response. I wish you the best of luck!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It's back at the lab. Should know tomorrow.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, it's a done deal. If you have a 94-03 FFS Coldside, it will be CARB legal in January at the latest. We passed the tests with nice margins.

Let the dancing in the streets begin. :)

It has been a struggle. An expensive struggle. All I can say is thanks to all of you for your support and prayers.

[Dr Evol]

Congratulations Tom!!

That was a lot of time, money, blood, sweat and tears. I hope it pays off for you in spades!

[99mx5]

Congrats Tom!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

As some of you know, today is the feast of St. Nicholas. Last night you were supposed to hang your stocking by the chimney with care (or sit out a shoe) and today he would bring a nut and a piece of fruit and a small gift. Well, I put mine out last night and today I got a walnut, an orange, a light jacket and CARB. I can say St. Nick was very kind this year.

[J_Man]

Congrats !

Btw, St. Nicholas is a patron of all fishermen and my home city :)
And because of it, every year on St. Nicholas day (today) people celebrate with having carp fish meal for dinner and some good wine!!!

[Serpico]

:)..........

[mike whitehouse]

Good news and a job well done. Thank you.

[cmetzner]

Woo Hoo!!

Tom - do you need me to help you write the manual for the hotside?

[socal pat]

You have to the luckiest man alive. With no aplicable engineering experience and a cooling system that won't work right.....and you still passed CARB. Dumb luck!!! ;) It couldn't happen to a nicer guy (and the hard work didn't hurt). Congats Tom!!

[pat conlon]

Are you set up yet for payroll deduction?

Next time you're bombing by on I-10 lunch/dinner is on me.

Congrats Tom, way to stick with it. We all won thanks to you. I hope the other FI vendors take note.

Pat Conlon, Palm Desert, Ca.

[Gord96BRG]

Bravo, Tom, a well-earned result of all your hard work! I'm sure it will pay off in huge sales numbers to Californians - are there ANY other CARB legal FI systems right now for 99-03 systems?

(I don't know if the JR M45 system even counts, since some people have said that it's changed enough from it's certified configuration that the EO# doesn't apply to what they sell now!?)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Woo Hoo!!

Tom - do you need me to help you write the manual for the hotside?

Well, if you want to take a shot at the install manual, be my guest. Any help in that quarter would be greatly appreciated. I think it will be a LOT easier than the coldside manual as the IM stays in tact.

Thanks

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You have to the luckiest man alive. With no aplicable engineering experience and a cooling system that won't work right.....and you still passed CARB. Dumb luck!!! ;) It couldn't happen to a nicer guy (and the hard work didn't hurt). Congats Tom!!

I'm thinking of visiting LA this weekend. I could drop it off and/or install it for you if we could meet someplace. Call me if you wish.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Are you set up yet for payroll deduction?

Next time you're bombing by on I-10 lunch/dinner is on me.

Congrats Tom, way to stick with it. We all won thanks to you. I hope the other FI vendors take note.

Pat Conlon, Palm Desert, Ca.

I may be passing through on Saturday afternoon. I have your number. I'll call.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Bravo, Tom, a well-earned result of all your hard work! I'm sure it will pay off in huge sales numbers to Californians - are there ANY other CARB legal FI systems right now for 99-03 systems?

(I don't know if the JR M45 system even counts, since some people have said that it's changed enough from it's certified configuration that the EO# doesn't apply to what they sell now!?)

I think the M45 kit is still certified as well in it's base package. My job was so hard because I wanted our base (190WHP) package certified. I don't think there are any others. I thought one of the turbo kits was but I can't find any data on the site that confirms.

[Mathrips]

Carb for the Coldside is so great Tom. Thanks so much for doing that.

[J_Man]

I think the M45 kit is still certified as well in it's base package.

Noone sells that base package anymore. Back then the kit was CARB tested at the lab with AFPR for fuel management and now Moss uses the PowerCard for fuel management. Moss still includes the CARB sticker with the kit and no smog station worker knows that the kit should include AFPR and not a PowerCard (as the CARB document lists), but techically the totally different fuel management control without lab testing should be illegal ...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, i was informed by the BOSS that we will not be going to LA this weekend. :( Better things are brewing I guess.

[mike@moss]

Noone sells that base package anymore. Back then the kit was CARB tested at the lab with AFPR for fuel management and now Moss uses the PowerCard for fuel management. Moss still includes the CARB sticker with the kit and no smog station worker knows that the kit should include AFPR and not a PowerCard (as the CARB document lists), but techically the totally different fuel management control without lab testing should be illegal ...

Hi there,

Just wanted to set the record straight. All of our M45 kits now supplied with Powercard are approved and were grandfathered into the existing executive order from CARB. I imagine that the CARB website information has not been updated to reflect this change. We would not sell the systems as CARB approved if they were not.

Best,

Mike Chaput, Corporate Marketing Manager
Moss Motors, Ltd.
The "OLD" Jackson Racing
Powercard Fuel Injection ELectronics

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mike,

Thanks for clarifying that for us. I would hate to see mis-information disseminated around the web as it so often does.

Besides, I like having company in the Miata CARB world. Looks like it is just you and me. :)

[chuckerants]

Am I late to the party?

Congrats Tom. What a great day for you and FFS. :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck,

You are in time. We wont do the dancing until the CARB certificate is published.

[Bo0osted]

Chuck,

You are in time. We wont do the dancing until the CARB certificate is published.

CONGRATS!!! When you "dancing in the streets of Coolidge" party starts, let us all know!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We will shout it from the mountain tops.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Can ya'll hear me shouting? :cheers2: :party:

As Ceasar said "Veni, vidi, vinci."


EO# D-617

[chuckerants]

:grouphug:

[99mx5]

:party::party::party::party:

[Elphaba]

:taz:LOUD AND CLEAR SIR!!!!:party:

[cmetzner]

The ARB database only lists EOs up 615. It will take probably 6 months for your mane to go up in lights on the Calif ARB website.

I have found that the website database is the same one that is in the smog check computers and the computers used by the "smog referee".

Great news Tom! Thanks for all the hard work. Does work on the hotside start on the 26th.

[Mathrips]

This is what I have been waiting for. Sign me up for the parts I need to comply.
You have just removed a great deal of stress from my life.

[Serpico]

Coldside, PC-Pro and now C.A.R.B.

Nicely done on all of the above.......:):):):)

[socal pat]

:rockon: Gitdown witcha bad self!! Who 'da man? YOU 'da man!!