Dyno chart comparison please.

[RichHawk]

Knowing full well that comparison of dyno charts should be taken with a whole shaker of salt, not just one grain, Can someone point me to a 2004 MSM factory turbo dyno chart?

I drove a friend's (100% stock) MSM and the power felt too constrained to the higher revs. I'm just trying to guage how the Coldside Ecool kit will *feel*, and my only comparison points are my stock 95, and the 2004 MSM..

Thanks,
Richard

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here is a thread on mnet regarding the MSM dyno.

http://forum.miata.net/vb/showthread.php?t=156087&highlight=msm+dyno

And here is the dyno chart from that thread.

http://www.mazda-speed.com/gallery/album25/s_Dyno_10_26_05?set_fullOnly=on

Looking at a dyno chart will not tell you how one feels compared to another. However, if you are in the Phoenix area before I sell it, let me know and I'll let you take my 05 Coldside for a ride.

[bogey]

I drove an MSM when it first came out and was really disappointed. The power band was so narrow and high that it really did not feel fast at all compared to my stock 96. I kept bumping the low rev limiter.

I added the Coldside to my 96 recently and the power deliverly is totally different. The Coldside is a blast. It pulls strong from 2K to redline. No delay on power delivery like the MSM. Torque is available quite low.

In fact, if I am "coasting" at 4K in 2nd and stomp the gas the acceleration is rather violent. The rear end squats down, the front end lifts up and it goes like a rocket. It is kind of scary in 2nd and 3rd gear...

Compared to my 97 with the BRP stage 2 Hotside, the Coldside is clearly superior. Part of this is due to tuning, but it is like night and day.

I would urge you to visit someone who has installed one for a test.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I know this isn't the perfect way to do it but the coldside dynos all draw straight lines. Here is one of the last dynos from the 05 CARB calibration runs. I drew the line to extend the HP curve. It crosses right at 195 WHP wich would be about right. We had one at 188 (around 6500 RPM but I couldn't find it. As I said, not a perfect way to show the graph but we weren't going much above 5500 as we were mostly interested in the low end. As you can see, we were over 130 Ft-Lbs of torque already by 2500 RPM.
http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/05.jpg

[J_Man]

Folks, when talking about positive displacement blowers in Miatas and which such Miata will be quicker at the track or curvy roads, forget about these peak HP numbers everyone is posting lately :)

Look at the top torque numbers and the torque graph around the torque peak. Some PDB cars may have smaller throttle which is choking a bit the peak hp number or the cams moved in a way to move the power band down the rpm range. But such car with higher torque graph will be quicker in real life, race track, autocross, canyon roads ...

If you want a car to brag with some useless highest hp number - just go bolt a centrifugal blower. You'll have even higher peak hp number because it is more efficient than an Eaton, but also look at its torque curve (engine power a lower rpm) - the car with the Eaton will eat it alive in real world :tongue:

If you want to compare your Eaton powered Miatas - compare your torque curves and whose is higher

[chuckerants]

Dynojet Research Inc.
Run Name: \\Main\storage (d)\Chuck PC BACKUP\MIATA DYNO DAY\MIATA\ANTHONY\DYNORUN.002
Run Title: 05 MAZDA SPEED , TURBO,,,
Run Notes:
Run Date: 4/26/2006 4:29:16 PM

DYNORUN.002: 74.27 °F 30.16 in-Hg Humidity: 29 % SAE: 0.97 Average Gear Ratio: 77.44

s RPM x1000 hp ft-lbs Air/Fuel
0.46 2.00 N/A N/A 16.29
1.19 2.25 38.50 89.88 16.37
1.82 2.50 49.66 104.32 16.26
2.38 2.75 59.78 114.17 15.99
2.91 3.00 69.83 122.26 13.81
3.40 3.25 80.05 129.36 12.86
3.86 3.50 91.42 137.19 12.20
4.30 3.75 103.83 145.43 12.04
4.74 4.00 110.26 144.78 11.74
5.17 4.25 115.92 143.25 11.27
5.61 4.50 122.06 142.46 10.90
6.05 4.75 132.86 146.91 10.16
6.47 5.00 139.44 146.47 10.00
6.90 5.25 147.70 147.77 10.00
7.34 5.50 151.48 144.66 10.00
7.79 5.75 154.56 141.17 10.00
8.26 6.00 156.99 137.42 10.00
8.75 6.25 155.35 130.55 10.00
9.27 6.50 153.27 123.89 10.00
--------- --------- --------- --------- ---------
MAX: 9.27 6.50 156.99 147.77 16.37


I'm too lazy to actually post the dyno, but this is the data for a 05 MSM.

I have another dyno from a another MSM and the AFR is pretty much the same.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

What's really funny is that the guys at CARB told me that Mazda had to use the worst case Miata for certification and that would be the MSM for 04/05. I told him that I felt there was NO WAY the MSM could pass US06/SC03. Look at that 10:1 at the tailpipe. I did note that there are two CATs for the 04/05. A regular cat and a "Turbo" cat.. I wonder if they could make a cat good enough to get rid of all that fuel. I also told him I have been behind MSM Miatas when they put their foot to the floor and have seen clouds of black smoke. If Mazda used the MSM as they were supposed to, they must have got it passed by "Smoke" and mirrors. :)

[99mx5]

Dont forget that the MSM also uses a 99-00 head without VVT.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not sure the head and VVT would have any effect on 10:1 A/F passing US06/SC03. What's really sad is that the MSM only makes ~130-140WHP, if I recall.

[Kyp J]

Dont forget that the MSM also uses a 99-00 head without VVT.

I wonder if the PCM for that would work in a 01 to 05 with a 99 head. As in same pin outs with logic ignoring the VVT. Then I wonder if a 99 cam would work in a 01 head leaving off the VVT parts. There must be some way to get rid of that stuff.

[Griff]

But such car with higher torque graph will be quicker in real life, race track, autocross, canyon roads ...

If you want to compare your Eaton powered Miatas - compare your torque curves and whose is higher

Sorry but whilst there is some truth to that, it simply isn't that simple... even taking torque / weight ratio into account, which is faster a 600cc sport bike or a tractor ?

If what your saying is the case then look at the high spun M45s and hotside MP62's they have significantly higher torque curves.

[J_Man]

Sorry but whilst there is some truth to that, it simply isn't that simple... even taking torque / weight ratio into account, which is faster a 600cc sport bike or a tractor ?

I am not comparing sports bikes and tractors here though (different engine rev ranges, weight differences, etc.)
I was talking about the same particular Miata with 1.8L engine and stockish (7600rpms and less) engine redline and how quick it will be with different blowers in real life.

[Griff]

Well if that's what you think then you sure don't want a coldside...

I don't think I've seen one over 165, most are around 150 IIRC.

[J_Man]

Well if that's what you think then you sure don't want a coldside...

I do have one (with the M45 blower though)
Above I was talking about people just going for peak hp numbers ...