pro adjustment problems

[Kyp J]

While trying again to get some of the basic adjustments accomplished, I noticed in WOT acceleration runs that between 3500 and 4000 RPMs the A/F went from a 12.3 (approx.) to the 14 - 15 range with a noticeable drop in power, then back to the 12s. This happened in 2nd gear and fairly unnoticeable since it goes thru that range of RPMs so fast but was very noticeable in 3rd or 4th gear where it takes longer to go thru the RPM ranges. (4th gear never got all the way thru the entire range, but it gave longer to study the A/F gauge.)

I repeated this on many runs and it was consistent and almost exactly those RPMs. If on a partial throttle but still a brisk rate of acceleration in boost, it didn't seem to do it all the time. This was probably dependent on how far the throttle was open. I can only accurately push the pedal full on or off.

Note: 115 pulley, Walbro 255 fuel pump, stock 01 injectors, e-cool unplugged. 14 lbs of boost at rev limit. It was probably around 9 lbs when it did the lean out.

Another item I noticed when in a higher gear, at the point where the the Pro changes to the middle RPM group, it momentarily jumps very lean, then goes to maybe 12.1 and starts creeping toward a leaner number. This only seemed apparent in a longer time duration run as the RPMs and boost levels climbed. It may have gone as lean as 13.3 as an example in the mid range where I spent most of the observation. In the high RPMs range in 3rd or 4th gear I was distracted by my wife who was brought along to record numbers, gripping the door handle and trying to push the floorboards out. I told her to not jump out at those speeds.

Chuck mentioned Tom has some means of recording the AEM on a laptop. I would like to find out how that is accomplished. Trying to watch the gauges while trying not to fly off the road is tricky. I was on hilly twisty roads with traffic so it wasn't ideal for these adjustments.

I have many more questions but will wait to see what is going on with this first.

[chuckerants]

I have the Zeitronix wideband which has a log feature using a laptop. Can you log your AFR?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Without the 5th injector, the PC-Pro has to make up all the fuel. The yellow light adds fuel in that range. Turn it up to 3 or 4 or more and see what happens.

[Kyp J]

I have the Zeitronix wideband which has a log feature using a laptop. Can you log your AFR?

I don't know. I have the AEM. I will try to look it up somewhere unless Tom tells me it won't do that since he has the same I think.

[Kyp J]

Without the 5th injector, the PC-Pro has to make up all the fuel. The yellow light adds fuel in that range. Turn it up to 3 or 4 or more and see what happens.

I will try that but it is only lean for 500 RPMs almost like it switches off and back on, or something else is doing something weird. Could VVT malfunctioning up cause something similar?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

What RPM did you start those 3rd and 4th gear runs? WOT or part throttle? Roughly what boost level? Wideband or narrow band gauge ?

[Kyp J]

What RPM did you start those 3rd and 4th gear runs? WOT or part throttle? Roughly what boost level? Wideband or narrow band gauge ?

I would slow down to below 2000 then go wide open right away (lugging?) and hold it. Hard to see what the first range is doing as it goes past 2500 so quick. It would jump to about 10:1 at first then go to 12:1 at or before the jump to the next range. Hard to tell if the 12 is still in the first or second range. I have the Pro at 0 for the first range.

I don't think I know what the initial boost looks like on a 3rd gear run when it is below 2500, but it starts around then at about 5 or 6 lbs and is at 9 lbs at 3500 rpm.

Wideband AEM

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Kyp,

I do have the AEM. It is capable of data logging but I have never done it. I do all my tuning on a dyno as I like the RPM, WHP, WTq and A/F all on the same chart.

I am cogitating on the rest of the questions. Wish you were here. Have you got a smaller pulley that you could put on for a test? I wonder if it has something to do with higher boost on an 01 Miata at lower RPM. The 01-05 is really different for fuel. All I have tested is the 105mm pulley on my 05. Could be that the injector firing pulse is biting us at that boost and RPM?

[raceskier]

I am also quite interested in part throttle operation data. I'm still using an ELF (latest one), but know that I will have to go to PC Pros for CARB. I started to put together some datalogging capability using this unit from Innovate:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lma3.php
It's really a powerful little package. I'll be able to log AFR, boost, throttle position, RPM and injector duty cycle. An additional advantage is, that it doesn't get nervous like a human data logger. Unfortunately, I'll be too busy with other things, to sort it out until April or so. I'm a little leary of doing AFR on the dyno only, as you are at full throttle all of the time. I've noticed some odd part throttle behavior with the ELF and it sounds like the Pro may be doing similar things.

Tom,

You mentioned in another thread that the PC Pro operation was load sensitive. I know that the old PC and the ELF only sensed boost, injector duty cycle and derived RPM's. How does the Pro sense load? Does it monitor throttle position?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The original PC monitors RPM and Boost and controls injector duty cycle. I'm not sure exactly how the ELF works?

I am not sure of the mechanics of how it drives engine load but, for the PC-Pro, that is the third part of the equation. When I create the settings, I adjust the weight in the formula for those three variables. The Miata 1.8L seems to like the weighting most on load. That really made a difference for A/F to be consistant for the different gears.


I am also quite interested in part throttle operation data. I'm still using an ELF (latest one), but know that I will have to go to PC Pros for CARB. I started to put together some datalogging capability using this unit from Innovate:
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/lma3.php
It's really a powerful little package. I'll be able to log AFR, boost, throttle position, RPM and injector duty cycle. An additional advantage is, that it doesn't get nervous like a human data logger. Unfortunately, I'll be too busy with other things, to sort it out until April or so. I'm a little leary of doing AFR on the dyno only, as you are at full throttle all of the time. I've noticed some odd part throttle behavior with the ELF and it sounds like the Pro may be doing similar things.

Tom,

You mentioned in another thread that the PC Pro operation was load sensitive. I know that the old PC and the ELF only sensed boost, injector duty cycle and derived RPM's. How does the Pro sense load? Does it monitor throttle position?

[raceskier]

OK, read the PC Pro wiring directions. (Duh!) It does wire into the TPS. That is what provides the added level of 'intelligence' of the Pro over the PC or ELF (ELF is doing basically the same things as the original PC, just with adjustment.) Now it is beginning to make sense. Reading about the capabilities of the new AEM F/IC, it doesn't even appear to monitor TPS. It sure would be nice though if the Pro could be upgraded to a processor capable of handling the 5th injector and maybe even WI. Gee Tom, with you selling the Pro like hotcakes, doesn't that give you some extra influence with Moss on further developments?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have friends in high places. The problem is development time. There is a project to do that in the works. But, for now I'll take the Pro as I stillthink it is the best thing going for the buck. If the new product does the job of two PC-Pros and costs the same as two, I would rather have it as it is. A lot of people don't need the extra capability and don't need to pay for it.

Is there a device on the market now that will do both as well as two PC-Pros? If so, is it under $600 (no harness)? I think there is a lot of versatility with 2. Besides, I get 4 analog loops instead of 2 that way. I haven't found a use for the other 2 yet but I will. :)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Hey, Tom I have an idea of what one of the other available outputs could be.... how about a voltage clamp for the MAF? I get the MAF overvoltage check engine light pretty quickly now with your pulleys that don't slip :).

Bill

[chuckerants]

Hey, Tom I have an idea of what one of the other available outputs could be.... how about a voltage clamp for the MAF? I get the MAF overvoltage check engine light pretty quickly now with your pulleys that don't slip :).

Bill

Do you still have the MAF screen removed?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Yes I still have it removed.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Piece of cake. if you don't need to use the rear O2 circuit, send the PC-Pro back and I can program that for you. ;)

[chuckerants]

Yes I still have it removed.

Hmm. I wonder if I'd get that CEL again if I started using the 120mm?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hmm. I wonder if I'd get that CEL again if I started using the 120mm?

You've got a 120? ;)

I liked Wayne's 130 so mu\h, I might skip 120 and go straight to the chase. :)

[chuckerants]

You've got a 120? ;)

I liked Wayne's 130 so mu\h, I might skip 120 and go straight to the chase. :)

Of course I do. I'm just letting you age it for me on your shelf. LOL

[dazooom]

Just got back from picking my car up at Mazda after they installed a new, SPEC II, clutch, two of Tom's pulleys, and the stainless clutch hose from TDR. The guys over there laughed that I had em remove two "shiny", pulleys, and put in two black ones from Tom. I can live with the black ones. The nose pulley looks good in black, with all the shiny stuff...:biggrin:

As far as the SPEC II clutch....They resurfaced the OEM flywheel, and that sucker is "smooth as butter". Absolutely no chatter! I'm a happy camper! I WAS going to the dyno on Monday, but, I'm gonna wait till I get like 350-400, "street" miles on the new clutch. I don't need to rush the dyno. I'll wait till the dyno to install the PC PRO, as I don't have A/F gauge.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The black anodize helps keep the pulley from wear. You can tell if the belt is slipping as it would turn shiney. My pulleys in the 99 are still black as ever.

[Silverstreak02]

Just got back from picking my car up at Mazda after they installed a new, SPEC II, clutch, two of Tom's pulleys, and the stainless clutch hose from TDR. The guys over there laughed that I had em remove two "shiny", pulleys, and put in two black ones from Tom. I can live with the black ones. The nose pulley looks good in black, with all the shiny stuff...:biggrin:

As far as the SPEC II clutch....They resurfaced the OEM flywheel, and that sucker is "smooth as butter". Absolutely no chatter! I'm a happy camper! I WAS going to the dyno on Monday, but, I'm gonna wait till I get like 350-400, "street" miles on the new clutch. I don't need to rush the dyno. I'll wait till the dyno to install the PC PRO, as I don't have A/F gauge.

What did the dealer charge for the clutch install?

[dazooom]

Not a penny for labor. I DID pay to have the flywheel milled. Even though the Mazdaspeed clutch wasn't warranted, I had purchased an OEM throw out bearing, and they installed it, when they did the Mazdaspeed clutch. Well, they replaced the throwout bearing, under warranty, when I was asked if the clutch was making noise. I've got a GREAT dealer....:biggrin: I tipped the two techs that swapped the pulleys, and installed the TDR stainless clutch hose, after they did the clutch install. (That's cheap insurance). Everytime my car is there, they do something little on it, that I would have never seen. I'm very luckly to have the relationship that I do with my dealer...

When I had the Mazdaspeed clutch installed, they charged $325 for labor.