Original Coldside and E-Cool Differences

[raceskier]

Hey Tom,

I have my original Coldside apart right now checking out a leak. I may go ahead and get the porting upgrade from BRP. Before I bolt everything back together, I was wondering what it would take to update my IM. Is it just machining to add the fifth injector port or is ther more to it than that?

Thanks,

Ken

[chuckerants]

I don't think BRP offers the porting anymore.

[99mx5]

DONT PORT YOUR BLOWER!!!
Bottom line, porting will make less power. I went from 175WHP unported to 183WHP with my port matching to 176WHP with BRP porting.
Hopefully its just me, but I have dyno runs to show it.

At best, its my belief that porting may work for hotsides and not coldsides. I hope I am the exception.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If the manifold is off, all it requires is machining the corner for the manifold to take the 5th injector. Then, the injector and the SS.

[raceskier]

Tom,

Could you provide a sketch of the injector port location and threads, so I can get the work done locally?

Ari,

I saw your photos of the matching that you did, do you have any of the BRP mods?

Thanks guys.

Ken

[99mx5]

I do have pics of the BRP mods, but Brant has requested that I not post them. He considers them a trade secret. In any event, I like mine better :)

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Ari,
I'm sure several here will be interested in how you did your polishing and what you used to do it

[99mx5]

I'll post my pics when i get home tonight, I even posted how I did my mods.


My Dremel and my file are my friends ;)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Tom,

Could you provide a sketch of the injector port location and threads, so I can get the work done locally?

Ken

Ken,

It is 1" down from the top, 1" in from the side and at a 45* angle. You can see it in the 3D drawing http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/3d-supercharger.htm. The threads are 5/8-16 straight threads to take our special injector. They also need to cut in an o-ring bevel seat at the top of the threads for the injector o-ring to seal. We also seal the threads with ultra-black so the o-ring seat is not too critical, I guess.

[raceskier]

Thanks Guys!

[Mathrips]

I don't get anything when I try that link???
I am also confused. I thought early posts said the extra injector went in the spacer not the manifold??

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sorry, the link is http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/3d-supercharger.htm

The original test were in the spacer as it was easier to change and the retrofit kits use a new spacer but the FFS factory kits put it in the manifold. It makes no difference in operation.

[99mx5]

I noticed more text engraved on the belt tensioner bracket. :)

[Kyp J]

Tom

Does the "SS" in your "E cool" mean the "Split second" thing I have seen mentions of? There are a variety of products they make. Is it the "Fuel/timing calibarator"?

Does any of this have a Knock indication built into it?

Since I am having the engine rebuilt, how much protection from knock would having 9 to 1 compression give me when I do a rebuild? Or 9.5 to 1?

Do you think lowering the compression is a good thing to do considering that this engine will continue to be supercharged unless it blows up again? I hate doing something that, to me, would seem to reduce performance to use something else to boost performance.

This whole experience is making me very uneasy trying to make decisions on how to prevent engine damage in the future.

What is the theory on water injection and is it for the same end result as the E-cool or for something else? Hotside contributors on the other forum are advising water injection for several posters with blown engines from stupid track tricks.

I am thinking even with improved cooling (radiator type) I am probably going to stay away from track use and only use the boost for AutoX and passing Porsches If it ever runs properly.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

SS is Split Second. it is the dual map extra injector controller. Second map is there just in case you want to do WI.

No knock indication. It is strictly for adding fuel via the extra injector. The stock ECU does pretty well at pulling timing based on knock. I have the digimoto and you can watch the ECU pull timing with that. Best $100 I have spent in a long time.

I would do 9:1 in a heartbeat. Simply use a set of 94-97 pistons and rods, I believe. I am not sure if you even need to swap the rods. I don't think the crank is different but I guess I am the worng person to ask about that. Maybe some mnet 'expert' could answer it. If I were you, I might have just looked for a good 94-97 used short block in good shape for a couple hundred and used it. Yep. 9:1 is a good thing for boost. Here is my 'caveat' though. I am not sure how it will work with the VVT and new ECU? IIRC, you have an 01-05?

Wi is a good tool. Water doesn't burn (already the product of combustion :)) so it aids in knock preve=ntion by cooling the charge and by not igniting. Fuel has almost the same heat capacity as water when comparing to air's very very low heat capacity. You also hacve 12.5 gallons of fuel on board and, if it runs out, you are no worse off. With water, if it runs out in the heat of battle on the track for any reason, you are in trouble. If you want bullet proof, the key things are engine cooling and air charge cooling and GOOD fuel. I have said it manyt times but will reiterate. There is no good reason for trying to race on a track of any kind on a modified engine on 91 pump gas. OK for the street and occasional boosts of power or even some canyon carving but sustained on a race track is silly. I have heard guys complain about the $6.00 per gallon but I geuss my theory is, if you can't afford to race don't do it. Anyhow, Cool the engine, cool the charge and use proper fuel. Last but not least, make sure you have adequate fuel for racing. I know you might lose a couple WHP by going a bit richer and I know a lot of companies are HP number crazy as HP sells, BUT, giving up a few WHP to mek sure you have adequate fuel is a good thing. The kind of racing most of us do would not show a dime's difference with +/- 5WHP.

I think a cooler Thremostat would also be a good thing but have not tried one yet. When I was a kid (and horses were still pulling cars up steep hills in the winter :)), I remember talk of engines being 25-35% efficient. The meaning being that 25-30% of the fuel consumed made WHP and the other 70% helped heat the planet via the radiator and the oil. Even if we have come so far as 40% efficiency with todays engines, there is still 60% going into creating nothing but heat. If you double the HP, you double the heat the oil and water have to get rid of. With todays cars having emphasis on $$, the radiator is marginal at best. Still probably good enough for street use but short on race track support. Remember too that the oil is the real heat eliminator. It is the fluid in close proximity to all of the heat sources. Bearings, pistons, etc. An oil cooler is a real asset to track racing as it helps the oil transfer the heat from the engine out to global warming. :)


Didn't mean to get on a soapbox but you asked. :) This is strictly my opinion and will probably be disputed by others. ;)

[Kyp J]

Thanks for the info. Yes I have a 2001. I am rationalizing the machine shop work to get better quality and stronger rods. Maybe a little more CCs also. They dispute the experience you mentioned about oil consumption being normal with forged pistons. If there are "better" quality cast pistons and are significantly cheaper, I may still go with that.

Just looking for basic concepts since engine mods are a new world to me. I wouldn't start to ask on Mnet due to the wars that seem to start when theories are brought up.

By the way, I found some info on knock frequencies on Mnet. It seems they are in the range of 5K to 18K hz. I can't hear any of that..Zero hearing. Experimenting with a freq. generator and an amplifier at work one time, I started cranking the volume up as I got into the higher than 2K range because it started to drop in volume then just disappeared like it wasn't there. Amazing, I thought I would hear something. All I heard was the screaming and shouting of everyone in the building to stop.

There was a thread on Mnet about experimenting with VVT control. Real technical. Sounds crazy. I still don't quite get why you can't some how make it constant mechanically at whatever angle is stock like a 99. Maybe emissions would be out of spec for 01?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think they are saying that the knock sensor signal is in that frequency range but at 7000 RPM there are 14000 ignition pulses per minute and if they were all knock, that woulr be 14000/60 seconds = 233 Hz. It sounds like marbles in a coffee can if it is hard knock and more of a zzzz if it is light knock. Sometimes you have spark blow out at high pressures if the spark plug gap is too wide and, although relatively harmless, it sounds a bit like knock.

It would be great if we could plug the VVT and set it where we want it but it will throw a CEL and create a problem. All part of the emissions thing.

[Kyp J]

Do you mean actual engine problem or problems passing smog.

I may be able to move to a non smog test part of Texas if I ever get there. That may only be temporary since they are expanding the smog sensitive counties.

I was under the impression that each sound pulse of knock was actually a burst of high frequency vibration. If you look at a microphone signal with a scope when you whack it with something, it is not one voltage excursion but a bunch. The frequency of each pulse is too high for my hearing. When a Killdeer bird is chirping all I hear is "Kill, Kill" (Assuming you know what a "Killdeer" is)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I did it on the 05 and all I got was a CEL. No real problem. I suppose you could unplug it, set t\it where you want, drive it like that and set it back for smog check.

[Kyp J]

Sorry, I was editing my other post adding something I forgot.

Any instructions on how to set it to a good place or do you just remove the oil pressure to it?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Unplug the VVT valve and the cam is all the way one way and apply 12 VDC to the connections and it will go all the way the other way. You can find the plug off a wrecked one and just wire it to 12VDC through a small fuse (10 Amp SloBlo?). Then you can test it both ways. I believe 6 VDC will move it half way. The manual just says that to test it, apply 12VDC and it should move to one end. unplug it and it should return.

[raceskier]

Tom,

One more question. Looking at the eDrawings file of the manifold. There is a counterbore around the 5/8-18 injector hole. Do you have the diameter of that? I'm trying to put together a sketch to give the machinist I'll take the mani to to have the port added.
Thanks.

Ken

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The counter bore is 1". That is the other reason we moved it to the manifold from the spacer. The spacer had to be like 0.975 to keep something left and it was snug to the injector.

[99mx5]

Unplug the VVT valve and the cam is all the way one way and apply 12 VDC to the connections and it will go all the way the other way. You can find the plug off a wrecked one and just wire it to 12VDC through a small fuse (10 Amp SloBlo?). Then you can test it both ways. I believe 6 VDC will move it half way. The manual just says that to test it, apply 12VDC and it should move to one end. unplug it and it should return.

Would it be possible to add a potentiometer and regulate the voltage to the VVT and "tune it"?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There was a long discussion on mnet about it. I don't think so. It is a closed loop control system and errors create a CEL. Even the BRP idea will cause a CEL if you go too far. Problem with theirs is that you just move the starting point but it still travels the same distance so now you have more of one direction but less of the other. What I saw appeared to be a timing issue. It just takes too long for it to actually move. However, if you look at the curves on the 05, it didn't seem to matter. I think it is more the 10:1 CR in combination that is stopping you from making more power. The S2K, for example, will be an even greater issue with VVT and 11:1 CR. There, if it hiccups at 300WHP, you have the potential for serious engine damage in a heartbeat.