Max pulley on a 01+

[Banshee]

Now that I found a long deserted road right in the back of my subdivision (a 2 mile walled off no side entrance road) I'm able to unleash the beast. The power bug is beginning to rear its ugly head.

What's the biggest pulley people have run on a stock internal 01+ coldside?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

All 01-05s have shipped with 105mm pulleys on FFS kits with e-cool. With the 10:1 compression pistons, I have not tried going beyond.

[Banshee]

Alright, I guess I won't be the first, considering I use WI and not E-Cool.

Last week, Flyin miata had a set of brand new 9:1 OEM overbore pistons for $150 a set. I was so tempted. But I figure the cost to rebuild a perfectly good engine was just too much.

[zoom2xtn]

Banshee

Ever thought of stockpiling the needed parts, one at a time, as bargains appear here and there? You'd feel mighty smart when that piston finally leaves the crank and it's rebuild time. I, of course, have no idea what might be needed as I am not a mechanic but if you would ever like a "built" engine you might start your parts stockpile when you see a deal.

Lee

[GO MAN GO]

I have an '01 coldside with a 115 pulley. The PC PRO made it much smoother.
It was installed at the end of Wisconsin driving season last year and it still
sitting in the garage. There was a little noise at the top of the RPM that I am
not sure of, but plan to adjust the fueling on the SS 5th injector controller
and or the PC PRO. I'm sure the cure is there somewhere. My concern is trying to find some tires that bite. Still a few weeks away from putting it
back on the road.

Jared.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

There's always Torco. :driving: :party:

[Serpico]

Tom,

I know you have been raving about the Torco stuff.... :)
How does it compare to stuff like NOS (off road formula) and the other stuff that seems to be available at every auto parts store?

Last summer I was using the NOS stuff and it did stop any pinging during the hottest part of the summer.

I'm asking because it's easy to pick up a can of the NOS vs. having to order the Torco and pay the shipping cost as well.

Is it really that much better?????

:confused:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

So far, I have tried the stuff you get by various names as octane boost from truck stops and filling stations and Torco. All I can say is that Torco really works. I don't know the other stuff. Out here I have to convert AZ91 with Ethanol to work with 12-15 pounds boost in 115F weather. I haven't hit the 115F yet but it has worked miracles so far. I will get the 130mm pulley on today, maybe, and see how that goes. Boost should be well off my 15PSI gauge. ;)

Somebody said the Torco was basically an MMT derravitive. Is the NOS stuff also an MMT derative?

[Serpico]

Not sure what the NOS stuff is , but it worked pretty well and the bottle sure looked cool..... :biggrin:

Seriously, it did work when I was having pinging troubles back in July/Aug. It cost $10 per bottle and I used the entire bottle per tank of gas.

[Serpico]

I did find this on Permatex's web site.....

NOS® Octane Booster Racing Formula

NOS performance for the serious enthusiast. Developed to increase octane effect up to 60 points or 6 full octane numbers. Blended with MMT and our performance-enhancing Powertane, along with Nitro Methane and unique lubricants specially developed for high performance engines.

This is the stuff I was using with good results and my local Napa store always seems to have it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sounds like similar stuff. The MMT is $17 delivered from the place that doesn't have shipping added. I use about 1/3 bottle (~10 oz) per tank. So ~$6 per tank. You might get away with less of the other stuff as well.

[Serpico]

Thanks for the info Tom & let us know how that 130mm pulley behaves!!!!!!

I think it's time to upgrade your boost gauge ..... :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is the expensive electronic one and it only goes to 15 PSI.

[BenTwombly]

All 01-05s have shipped with 105mm pulleys on FFS kits with e-cool. With the 10:1 compression pistons, I have not tried going beyond.

Tom:

To be sure I have it right: Ideally the SC nose pulley and engine crank pulley are matched to produce maximum speed (red line) for the supercharger at the maximum speed of engine use (red line)?

Can one find the speed (RPM) of the sueprcharger with a defined engine speed (RPM), Crank Pulley (CP) and Nose Pulley (NP) using:

(CP/NP)=BSR
BSR*engine RPM= supercharger RPM

where
NP = Nose Pulley (mm)
CP = Crank Pulley (mm)
BSR = Bore Speed Ratio
BS = Bore Speed (rpm)

So with a 65 mm Nose Pulley, a 150 mm Crank pulley, at an engine speed of 7,000 rpm the SC will be spinning at 16,154 rpm or just above redline? Will this also allow the SC to get over 4,000 rpm sooner?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ben,

You are correct that it is CP/NP * Engine RPM. 16K is right up there for the MP62. That is the speed they are tested at.

The SC Speed at 4000 Engine RPM would simply be 150/65 * 4000 = 9230 SC RPM.

Not sure what you mean about the SC getting over 4000 RPM faster? It is simply the ratio of the two pulleys times Engine RPM. A straight linear relationship.

[BenTwombly]

Ben,

Not sure what you mean about the SC getting over 4000 RPM faster? It is simply the ratio of the two pulleys times Engine RPM. A straight linear relationship.

Thanks for the verification Tom:

The reason I'm interested in 4,000 rps is that ideally I'd like the fat part of the torque curve to max from 4,000 to 7,000. Perhaps I am assuming too much here but I think the pulley and max rpm would seem to give me the ability to calculate it before I buy/install.

[BenTwombly]

Ben,

You are correct that it is CP/NP * Engine RPM. 16K is right up there for the MP62. That is the speed they are tested at.

Tom: I've noticed you recommend 105, 110 and 115mm crank pulleys. The coldside (at least mine) came with a 65 mm 6 rib pulley. Do all come with a 65mm standard? If so, are you being conservative as a responsible vendor? Or am I missing something? It would seem the greatest output would come from 150mm?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ben,

I think 200 WHP is plwnty for the average daily driver on pump gas. As SC RPM goes up, boost goes up and heat goes up. Pretty quick pump gas (like AZ91 with 10% ethanol) gets a lot of ping. I am ready to try a 130mm on my 99 but I don't have high hopes for it without ample measure of Torco. ;)

I also personally think 200-225WHP is the upper limit for a daily driver. That is double stock.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Ben,

With coldsides, there is no 'fat' part of the curve. It is flat. You basically make the same torque at 1500 RPM as you do at 7000 with a slight rise from 3000-5000. Putting a larger pulley simply raises the whole thing.


Thanks for the verification Tom:

The reason I'm interested in 4,000 rps is that ideally I'd like the fat part of the torque curve to max from 4,000 to 7,000. Perhaps I am assuming too much here but I think the pulley and max rpm would seem to give me the ability to calculate it before I buy/install.

[BenTwombly]

Ben,

I think 200 WHP is plwnty for the average daily driver on pump gas. As SC RPM goes up, boost goes up and heat goes up. Pretty quick pump gas (like AZ91 with 10% ethanol) gets a lot of ping. I am ready to try a 130mm on my 99 but I don't have high hopes for it without ample measure of Torco. ;)

I also personally think 200-225WHP is the upper limit for a daily driver. That is double stock.

Tom:

No worries, my initial target range is 200-225 hp so basically I'm in agreement with your suggestions. The difference is that mine is not a daily driver, it is a Lime Rock "fun" car in the EMRA ST1 class. My plan is to progress in steps.

What I'm chasing is understanding of the relationship between SC speed (pulleys), boost (psi), heat limits (intercooling), output (hp) and longevity/reliability/manageability. It seems there are some general guidlines in your discussion. E.g. Perhaps 10,000 rpm ~ 10 psi ~ 200 hp ~ 100F charge (managable heat) = reliability?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We typically spin the blower at 11,500 to 12,700 with 105-115 pulleys. At 10-14 PSI boost, that can result in 300F+ intake air temperature. Pretty hot. If you are building a track only car and will always be running high octane fuel, that is a whole different story. I'll let you know my feelings on that after I try the 130 mm.

[Serpico]

Ben,

Sounds like you are in my area. I live about 10 minutes from Lime Rock Park.

Are you are member of C.A.R.T. ? Our first event is coming up soon.
www.cartct.com

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, I don't know the max number for the 01-05 BUT for the 99-00 ......... http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=535

:):):)