Welcome to Chris

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

in Utah. I think he will soon be the highest WHP coldside around with his 99 and 120mm pulley. :)

[roxfatal]

Thanks for the welcome Tom. I did not get a chance to get the baseline dyno done on the car due to weather. I wanted to get the car in the shop as soon as possible so the baseline dyno had to be compromised. I figure with other posts at Miata.net it should be around 115 WHP with the cold air intake and RB header. I will have to dyno done at one of the best tuning shops in the area, Cobb Tuning. They specialize in STI's but they know FI. They have a Mustang dyno but I can convert the numbers to dynojet to compare.

Larry from Carpenter Motorsports is doing the install and he knows Miata's forwards and backwards, so I am very confident he will do a pro job. I told him I would let him try it out at the next track day. He might be in contact for support over the phone.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If you get a chance, ask him if we could add him as another installer. We could use one in Utah.

[roxfatal]

I spoke with Larry and he welcomes the business. He loves Miata's, especially the ones on the track ;)

His webpage is here:

http://www.carpentermotorsports.com/index.html

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Done. Thanks.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chris is now the first member (after me of course) to the 130mm club. Let's all give him a round of applause for his courage and prayers for his engine. ;)

[bambam]

Chris is now the first member (after me of course) to the 130mm club. Let's all give him a round of applause for his courage and prayers for his engine. ;)

Welcome Chris... did you get a 120 mm or 130 mm ??

BAMBAM

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The entry requirements for the 130mm club is a 130mm pulley. ;)

[bambam]

The entry requirements for the 130mm club is a 130mm pulley. ;)


well the prior post says 120 mm so there :taz:
Im just jealous :nopity:

I have some Hawk Pads, and will get me RB mid pipe.. and then wideband. Then I will order a 135 mm and be top dog

:devil2:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That 120 was as it shipped. After 2-3 weeks of it running, he decided 120 wasn't enough and joined the rather exclusive, at the moment, 130 club. ;)

[roxfatal]

I have some Hawk Pads, and will get me RB mid pipe.. and then wideband. Then I will order a 135 mm and be top dog


135 mm would be 20+ PSI in Arizona, that is quite a bit of boost. Where are you located and at what altitude?

Thanks Tom for welcoming me into the 130 club. We will see how it does soon enough. I spoke with Larry and he says that is quite a bit of boost :eek: and I BETTER run race gas while on the track. We did agree that if we had to, we could drop another motor in. That is one of the reasons why I love Miata's. I will try and be careful and make sure the tuning is set up right. I will post dyno's over at Miata.net after the new pulley is installed. I have another track day on May 12th as well. It is with the advanced boys in the SCCA so there should be a bunch of good drivers with a variety of cars. I will let you know how the "Boosted" Miata does.

Cheers, Chris

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chris,

Turned out the PC-Pro needed to have the software changed afterall. Could be just because of my larger (280cc) injectors? It wasn't all bad though as it failed rich rather than lean. Also, the PC-Pro has a 15PSI sensor on board and I am at ~20 PSI. You should be closer to 15PSI and that should help. In any case, if you can't tune it, let me know and we can re-program the card for you.

[bambam]

135 mm would be 20+ PSI in Arizona, that is quite a bit of boost. Where are you located and at what altitude?

Thanks Tom for welcoming me into the 130 club. We will see how it does soon enough. I spoke with Larry and he says that is quite a bit of boost :eek: and I BETTER run race gas while on the track. We did agree that if we had to, we could drop another motor in. That is one of the reasons why I love Miata's. I will try and be careful and make sure the tuning is set up right. I will post dyno's over at Miata.net after the new pulley is installed. I have another track day on May 12th as well. It is with the advanced boys in the SCCA so there should be a bunch of good drivers with a variety of cars. I will let you know how the "Boosted" Miata does.

Cheers, Chris

I was just piggybacking on your thread... I will probably go with the 130mm and call it the day. Tom dont have any pulleys made up larger than the 130mm anyway. I am getting real close to getting my wideband... by the way I am in Texas outside of Dallas. My 110mm gives me 10psi rock solid..so a 130 mm will get me... uhh?? I dont think 20psi...

It will be interesting to see your dyno sheet... I have not dynoed mine because to be honest... I would rather spend that money toward a wideband, and then dyno it. Hey man have fun! I bet that 120mm was a hoote for awhile there... you remind me of me!

later,

Buck

[roxfatal]

Larry is helping me put in my boost gauge, RPM shift light and the new 130mm pulley this Friday morning. I will then proceed south 2.5 hours to get the dyno and tuning done. Is there something I should look for specifically about tuning? It sounds like at 15 PSI or higher the PC pro is shoving to much fuel in there to early. My experience with the last tune showed a bit lean around 3k-5k RPM. In order to flatten my AFR line I added fuel on the second adjustment setting (yellow). Since I will getting into boost quicker maybe this will cure itself? How long is the turn around for the cards? Is it easy to remove the cards in such a way you can reprogram them?

I also found this:

Air Density decreases at a rate of 2.9% - 3.0% for each 1000 ft. of elevation above Sea Level.

Naturally Aspirated: Atmospheric Pressure 14.5 psi (It's hard to ride at sea level 14.7 psi)
Atmospheric Pressure @ 5000 feet - Im using 3% since the air is real dry here ;) = 12.33 psi

Atmospheric Pressure = 12.33 psi, Boost = 12 to 13 psi, Total Pressure = 24.33 to 25.33 at 5000 feet.

Therefore the Absolute pressure is lower by ~ 2 psi like you mentioned before. My gauge might be reading 16psi (after the 130mm is installed) but in reality it is producing the same amount of absolute total pressure of a 14 psi gauge at sea level.

My question is: How is the PC pro measuring the pressure? I would think it would see the 16 psi like the gauge and assume 30.5 psi absolute pressure, therefore adding to much fuel to early. At this point it is all speculation but it is fun to guess / analyze. Real world testing begins Friday. ;)

[roxfatal]

Therefore the Absolute pressure is lower by ~ 2 psi like you mentioned before. My gauge might be reading 16psi (after the 130mm is installed) but in reality it is producing the same amount of absolute total pressure of a 14 psi gauge at sea level.

That needs to be a question not a statement. What absolute psi is my motor seeing? 10mm larger pulley translates to 2-3 psi? I would imagine at altitude 2 psi? Bottom line I might see 16 psi on the gauge and I think I will be at the limit for boost. This is the formal request for Tom to find more HP / Torque with the coldside kit :yes: It seems pulley is no longer the easy answer once you are in the 130mm club :cool:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I ran out of the ability to do all that heavy math on mnet a week or so ago. :)

Those numbers sound about right for me. The international standard for sea level is 14.5 PSIA. That is why fuel injectors are tested and certified at 43.5 PSI (3 atmospheres) rather than 44.1 (3 x 14.7). The 3% number basically comes from the fact that pressure drops about 1" (0.9" Hg) per 1000 feet. 0.9/29.92 yeilds ~3%. Every 2" Hg is about 1 PSI. 29.92/14.5.

I think you will be close to 15PSI. I think I do have a wee bit of a problem with 20PSI over powering the 15PSI (30 PSIA) chip. I guess we will know Friday. ;)

If push comes to shove, I can send you a programmer and then you can program changes for test that I send to you via email.

[Dr Evol]

Isn't Utah where they performed some of the atom bomb tests? :devil2:

Just kidding!

Feel the force Luke, err I mean Chris.

[roxfatal]

I ran out of the ability to do all that heavy math on mnet a week or so ago. :)


If push comes to shove, I can send you a programmer and then you can program changes for test that I send to you via email.

Mnet wearing you out? You need to stay out of those threads with the college kids ;)

I will get the real world numbers Friday and we can go from there. Hopefully everything will be fine with the PC pro but it is nice to know I have options. I have a feeling I am going to be looking for more flow even after the pulley is installed. :yes:

[roxfatal]

Isn't Utah where they performed some of the atom bomb tests? :devil2:

Just kidding!

Feel the force Luke, err I mean Chris.

In some ways I am grateful that Tom has not made a pulley larger than 130mm yet. I did ask about them though!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I will have ONE 150mm this week sometime. Toss up who gets it first. My problem is that I can't push it through the engine anymore. I am at the point that, if I put a 200mm pulley on there I probably wouldn't gain 5 WHP. Just make more boost. I hope to have that problem solved SOON. ;)

More flow, less boost. More flow, less boost. More flow........

The good news appears to be that the higher the boost, the hotter the charge, the more efficient E-Cool becomes. ;)

[roxfatal]

130 mm was a bit much 15-16psi ? Without changing the software on the PC pro's I was getting a ton of knock whenever I put my foot in it. So I swapped the 130mm for a 125mm and we are back to turn key and enjoy. I have not got it on the dyno yet, I will do that this week. There is no knock so far but it has been cold here. I hope when it heats up things do not change. I am now at 13.5 to 14 psi boost and the car has more torque in the lower RPM's. The seat of the pants tells me I definately have more power. Either my tires are wearing out or my back end is getting more loose from power. I will post a dyno when I am done. I do know it made me go like :biggrin: again!

[roxfatal]

Back from the dyno with the 125mm pulley. I was getting pinging that only a trained ear could hear. The plugs were toasted medium brown in color and real grainy. I replaced the plugs, turned the E-cool up to 8, dumped in a bunch of Torco and still was getting pinging. I think I am at the limits of boost with my setup. I lost 13 HP down to 187 corrected. My boost level was 13.5 psi. I am going back to the original 120mm pulley to try and get my 200 hp back. I hope I have not done any permanent damage. As the weather gets warmer I am not sure if even the 120mm will work without pinging. Do I need an intercooler?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

What was your A/F? Curious if you were running out of fuel.

[roxfatal]

Nice level line from 3500rpm to 7000rpm with .2 difference. After I got the line smooth, I could change the AFR with the yellow blue on the 4 injectors. It lost power at 12-1. It seemed to like 11.4-11.6 the best, plus it pinged less. E-cool would also change the entire AFR line. I tried 7, 7.5 and 8 settings with the 5th injector and pulled/added fuel with the yellow/blue in order to keep the 11.4-11.6 AFR. Best I could get was 187 hp which was at the 11.4-11.6 AFR area. My boost was at 13.5psi at redline.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yep, sounds like you have reached the limit. We tried. Send it back and go back to what worked.

[roxfatal]

OK I am back to the 120mm and 11.5 psi. I already miss the low end torque but I would rather be safe and not blow the motor. Back to the dyno on Friday to fine tune and adjust the AFR. Hopefully I will be back to the 200 WHP soon. Thanks for the help Tom. Like you said we tried! This WHP stuff is just a bit less addicting than track time.

[roxfatal]

Looks like it was to late to go back. The damage has been done. I would not push anymore than 10-11psi with the stock motor. The track day is lost and I need another motor or rebuild. I do not know what direction I will go now.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Pushing the envelope is a learning experience. I wonder if I should pull the 130 off of my 99? Almost too much fun to stop.

[roxfatal]

That is true....an expensive learning experience. Lucky it is only a Miata motor and not a vette motor. I would not push anymore than 11psi with the coldside kit unless you run race gas. That is free advice, you decide how to take it. Since the envelope I was pushing was to small, I decided to get a bigger envelope. Next target 260WHP with engine management / tools for safe operation. Now I need to come up with the 10k for parts and labor to get it all done. :eek:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That's the real WHP conundrum. The first 200 WHP are relatively inexpensive. The next 50WHP cost thousands and thousands.