BTB Hotside Install

[MikeyLikesIt]

OK, I got the BTB installed, and man, what a difference! Bigger pulls, more power, more power, more power!

Only thing left on this project is the idle adjust. It was bad before, now I am having trouble keeping it running....

Thanks to all for your help...

E-Cool is next!

Mike

[Scuba Steve]

I would appreciate if you make notes of how your idle adjustment goes. I just bought a BTB and idle is my biggets concern. I probably won't install mine until mid-summer.

[MikeyLikesIt]

No problem. I will. I think the idle needs adjustment, but I think I have a bigger issue with an idle droop.

I will do some research on here and see what I can dig up.

Mike

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mike, turn the idle screw up a 1/2 turn. Drive it a day or so with ac on/off, lights on/off an combinations of those so the ECU can learn the idle. Then make small changes up/down and repeat. Don't make changes more often than a day of driving. The ECU needs time to learn between adjustments.

[MikeyLikesIt]

I would appreciate if you make notes of how your idle adjustment goes. I just bought a BTB and idle is my biggets concern. I probably won't install mine until mid-summer.

Steve: Don't wait until Mid-summer, you'll regret it!

The stalling and idle droop are all gone. My idle is a little low, I need to adjust it.
Actually, I had a idle droop with the stock TB that I was having trouble getting rid of.
Also do yourself a favor: If you're intake filter is older, replace it. It's made a big difference for me.
It sounds like I have a Hoover attached to the blower... Serious air-flow!

Mike

[Scuba Steve]

Steve: Don't wait until Mid-summer, you'll regret it!

The stalling and idle droop are all gone. My idle is a little low, I need to adjust it.
Mike

Interesting, I thought most reported more idle droop with the BTB. My car will probably not be pulled out of storage for another couple of weeks. I was delaying the BTB install until I install the new wideband, pulleys, radiator, PC-Pro and e-cool. I was planning to do each one over a series of weekends as time permits.

Maybe I will just set a weekend aside and do it all at once.

Did you adjust your idle through the IAC or the course adjustment on the BTB?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Interesting, I thought most reported more idle droop with the BTB.

Umm, maybe that was somebody else's BTB? ;)

With our BTB, the only adjustment is the throttle stop screw.

[MikeyLikesIt]

I've made absolutely no changes or adjustments.

Just as Tom has said, ruin with the A/C, lights, etc on and it will settle out, which it did.

Mike

[eunos1800]

Some pic's would be nice :)

Tom what solution did you come up with for TPS actuator?


That bit of plastic BRP/SOT supply is driving me crazy.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I use all precision machined aluminum parts for the TPS adaptors. Not cheap but work flawlessly. It helps to use the BBK BTB too. The ball bearings keep it smoth.

[eunos1800]

From the work i seen you produce and the products i've purchased from you R
Tom i wouldn't expect anything other wise :)

Do you have any pics though?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Here are two pictures.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/94-97TPS-Adaptor1.JPG
http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/94-97TPS-Adaptor2.JPG

[MikeyLikesIt]

Some pic's would be nice :)

Tom what solution did you come up with for TPS actuator?


That bit of plastic BRP/SOT supply is driving me crazy.

Did you want some pics from me? I could probably do that this weekend...

Mike

[eunos1800]

That looks great Tom.


Does the BTB kit still go for $500?

Is there nothing i can use off my BRP Mac BTB to try and save a few bucks?



Mike, yea some pics of your BTB and setup would be great :)



Cheers
Mark

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mark,

It wil take me awhile but your car will be more FFS than BRP someday. ;)

Still $500 plus shipping.

There is nothing I can think of that you can save. My BTB kit comes with the BTB, BTB adaptor, Rear SC bracket, 3" hose, 3/8" vacuum hose, remote IAC assembly and a tee to correct cruise control drop out when climbing a hill.

If all you want to do is replace the MAC BTB, just buy the BBK model 1701. It will bolt right on. JEGS and Summit carry them. The benefit of my kit is the other parts.

[eunos1800]

Mark,
It wil take me awhile but your car will be more FFS than BRP someday. ;)


I can always hope so Tom :)


Thanks for the advice.
Sorry for Hi-jacking Mike.



Cheers
Mark

[HotsideHamid]

Tom,
How is your BTB adaptor plate different than the BRP unit? Just wondering because I had that plate ported by them to increase the flow- and I can tell it took a bit of grinding on there part. Also, does your TPS adaptor plate and actuator bolt on to the Mac TB?

-Hamid

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Our BTB adaptor is computer flow designed to flow from the incoming 75mm circle to the odd shaped inlet on the blower. I guess it would be possible to replicate with a hand grinder? I'll put up a 3D picture later if I remember. It might already be here someplace?

I think the MAC is different from the BBK for the TPS mount.

[HotsideHamid]

Wow, quick response! The adapter plates that BRP manufactured were not matched up very smoothly to the blower opening, or the BTB side of things, for that matter. It is a CNC'ed piece, but it took some additional grinding by hand on their part. I had them grind it to match the openings perfectly. It was part of their "porting package" back in the day. The dummy throttle body was also similar in that the opening leading from the crossover tube had a 1/4 inch lip that interrupted air flow. This is one of the parts where I'd like to grind down myself for better flow, but I've been lazy. They ported the BTB adapter plate for me due to there being a number of issues with my kit.

-Hamid

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Does that mean it was port matched to a 'ported' blower?

[HotsideHamid]

No, thank goodness! I don't even know what they would do to port the blower. I almost had them port it too!

-Hamid

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Whew!!!! That's good news.

[MikeyLikesIt]

http://img372.imageshack.us/img372/5627/img1248es6.th.jpg (http://img372.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1248es6.jpg)

http://img480.imageshack.us/img480/10/img1249rj9.th.jpg (http://img480.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1249rj9.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/5903/img1250it3.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1250it3.jpg)

http://img373.imageshack.us/img373/4739/img1253rq3.th.jpg (http://img373.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img1253rq3.jpg)

Let me know if you need to see anything else... It's pretty crammed in there, but it all works...

Mike

[Scuba Steve]

My BTB arrived today and after reading this thread and the one that preceeded it (http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=323) I have some additional questions.

1) I have the gasket to mount the BTB to the BTB Adaptor and the new rear SC bracket to the SC. There is no gasket to connect the BTB adapter to new rear SC bracket. Is this correct?

2) In the thread in which I provided a link, Tom stated
There is a 3/8" barb under the BTB adaptor and two more on the BTB. You run one hose from the BTB and one from one of the adaptor barbs to the two fittings on the IAC. The other BTB barb gets a hose to the driver's side of the valve cover.
There is actually only 1 barb on the BTB. I assume the single barbs on the BTB and BTB adapter route to the IAC (In any order) and the barb on the valve cover remains routed to the outlet manifold on the top of the SC. Correct?

3) In this thread, Mike provided 4 pictures. When I Look at the second picture, it appears the BTB is mounted 180 degrees off. It appears the TPS is mounted inboard of the SC and the throttle assembly is mounted outboard of the SC. Isn't this reverse of a normal mount?

4) The 2.5 inch tubing on the original TB is mounted to the outlet manifold with a reducer and a (BRP) bracket. It appears as though the new tubing eliminates the reducer and bracket. How do those of you with the BTB secure your tubing and air filter? Do you leave it loose?

5) In pictures 3 and 4, Mike provides a picture of the tee for the cruise. I haven't looked at this in detail, but am curious why it is needed. Is this due to the extra volume of air from the BTB?

Sorry for the long thread, but it is too cold to be working on the car, so I am over-analyzing the install :yes:

[Serpico]

1. No gasket. I used some Ultra-Black

2. Yes, run a hose from each barb to the IAC valve. The hose from the valve cover gets T'd into one of the hoses going to the IAC valve, not to the SC outlet manifold (it would see boost then, but I'm sure that was just a typo and you knew that :) ).

Use that little black vacuum distribution block and mount it on top of the BTB. Then you can run one hose to the IAC valve and the other end can be used for your cruise control vacuum tubing. That will keep the cruise control from seeing any boost and droping out when going up hills.

3. Yes, Mine is 180 degrees from his. Not sure why he did it that way. Maybe something to do with the old way BRP used to run the throttle cable for the stock throttle body.

4. I have the cold air box, so my filter is secure. I did use a tie-wrap to secure the hose to the shock tower brace leg to keep it from rubbing against the SC.

5. See answer #2 :)

Hope this helps !!!!!

[Scuba Steve]

2. Yes, run a hose from each barb to the IAC valve. The hose from the valve cover gets T'd into one of the hoses going to the IAC valve, not to the SC outlet manifold (it would see boost then, but I'm sure that was just a typo and you knew that :) ).

Use that little black vacuum distribution block and mount it on top of the BTB. Then you can run one hose to the IAC valve and the other end can be used for your cruise control vacuum tubing. That will keep the cruise control from seeing any boost and droping out when going up hills.


Oops, it is snowing out and I am trying to go from memory. You are correct about the line from the valve cover. It is the bypass valve that gets connected to the outlet manifold :redface:

I am still a bit confused about the little black distribution block. I see in the original thread it was connected to the BTB adapter, but the one I have has no way to connect it to the BTB adapter. It has 3 tapped holes for brass connectors and nothing else. In either case, I suspect this will clear up when I go outside and take some time to examine the lines going to the cruise.

Dammit, it is April, why is it snowing outside :surrender:

[Serpico]

Please tell me that snow isn't headed my way....

My BTB kit included a small pipe nipple and I simply screwed that into the center of the distribution block and screwed the block into the BTB.

I suppose that mounting the block somewhere else works just as well. I think it just looks cleaner when mounted to the BTB.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Some headers do not allow for the distribution block to fit under the BTB-A so I included extra fittings to remote locate it, if needed. You should end up with an extra.

[liddown]

Hummm I think you can blame me for the snow.... I guess an order was all it took.....

[Scuba Steve]

Some headers do not allow for the distribution block to fit under the BTB-A so I included extra fittings to remote locate it, if needed. You should end up with an extra.

In the picture I saw, the distribution block sat on top of the BTB adapter, not under it. Probably no big deal, I just need some time in the garage to look at my options.

In either case, I suspact it is all well. It is my GF's car, and when she saw the old parts and the new parts, she made some comment about bigger is better, although I have no clue what she is talking about:)

[MikeyLikesIt]

The distribution block on the bottom of the BTB wouldn't fit because it was hitting the header. (I installed an 01+ header, removed the 900lb cast iron piece)

I actually had trouble finding some 90 degree bends for the fittings, so I made due with what I had. The one on the bottom of the block goes back to the BTB, one across to the IAC and one to the port for the cruise.

Yes, I did mount mine 180 out, that's the way the used kit I bought had it installed.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Mike

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I have seen the TB mounted in BRP kits with the lever arm on the engine side, driver's fender side and under side. Might have had something to do with the day of the week it was shipped? With our kits, it will be on the engine side as that is where the new throttle cable bracket will mount. Those of you who will want the new bracket, when done, can simply rotate the throttle body, I hope?

When you run the hoses from the BTB and adaptor to the IAC valve, make sure the hose from the BTB goes to the barb at the end of the IAC and the one from the adaptor goes to the other barb.

[MikeyLikesIt]

Yes, please let me know when this bracket is ready. Right now, my throttle cable is zip tied to the SC bracket.

Mike

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes, please let me know when this bracket is ready. Right now, my throttle cable is zip tied to the SC bracket.

Mike

I can hand fabricate one for you if it will help?

EDIT: I just hand made one for you but have no way to test it. The production version will look better and have more adjustment as I will move the cable mount area further from the wheel like I am doing for the coldsides. But, it is yours if you want to try it.

[MikeyLikesIt]

Thanks, man you're the best.

I will try it and report back.

Thanks again

Mike

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Your tracking number is 1Z00400F0394207537. It will be there next Tuesday.

[Scuba Steve]

I had planned to finish putting in the BTB nad some other parts this weekend.

Two weeks ago it was 80 degrees, today we are having near record cold and it is 15 degrees out.

Guess things are going to have to wait another week, I just don't feel like working in the garage in this weather.

[MikeyLikesIt]

OK, I got the spacer from Tom, but I was thinking about it all wrong. The blower is sitting too far forward instead of too far back. I've moved it back as far as I've could but now the mounting plate for the auto tensioner is hitting the front of the motor and valve cover, so I'm not sure it's far enough.

I don't know if either I need longer standoffs, or a thinner mounting plate. My guess it's about one or two pulley ribs off.

Tom: I'll ship the spacer back with the injector.

Ideas?

Mike

[MikeyLikesIt]

UPDATE: I've put some washers behind the tensioner plate, and I was able to move the blower back some, but now it's only skipping one rib. I need to tweak some more, but I'm concerned now that I amy move the roller for the tensioner too far off of the belt....

Mike

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Something is really weird. If the blower pulley and crank pulley were aligned to begin with, you shouldn't have needed to move the blower. First you align them and then you adjust the tensioner. You should not be aligning the blower to the tensioner.

[MikeyLikesIt]

Something is really weird. If the blower pulley and crank pulley were aligned to begin with, you shouldn't have needed to move the blower. First you align them and then you adjust the tensioner. You should not be aligning the blower to the tensioner.

What kind of adjusting is there with the tensioner?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No real adjustment other than possibly spacing it out with a thin washer under each spacer.

[MikeyLikesIt]

OK, more tweaking on the pulley to come. I put in the 115 yesterday, and man, what a difference. I'm ready for the 130, now:gunsmilie:

Next questions, I still have to do the E-Cool, and I need to know what to do with the vacuum line on the SS controller. Does it tee into the line on the manifold?

Also, do I need to run the wiring all the way back to the ECU? Or is there somewhere I can connect under the hood?

Thanks to all, this place is a great resource...

Mike

[Kyp J]

OK, more tweaking on the pulley to come. I put in the 115 yesterday, and man, what a difference. I'm ready for the 130, now:gunsmilie:

Next questions, I still have to do the E-Cool, and I need to know what to do with the vacuum line on the SS controller. Does it tee into the line on the manifold?

Also, do I need to run the wiring all the way back to the ECU? Or is there somewhere I can connect under the hood?

Thanks to all, this place is a great resource...

Mike

T the vacuum line that goes to the boost gauge and the PC pro or whatever fueling card you use.,

I don't have the answer to your other question, I ran the few wires needed thru the grommet around the heater hose pipe because I was too lazy to research the wiring in the engine compartment, but I would bet it is possible to find the connections since I think it only has 12v, gnd and the cam position signal which should be by the back of the cam cover. However, don't go by anything I say until you verify it independently. It has been awhile since I actually looked at it.

What I wanted to warn you about was that I put my SS on the flat shelf area on the drivers fender well and it started melting. If you put it there, shield it from the exhaust.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mike, you can pick up those three wires in the grey data box on the drivers fender.

I agree with Kyp. Put the box over on the passenger firewall or fender. The SS box is hearty but there is a LOT of heat on the driver's side.

[MikeyLikesIt]

OK, I've got the pulley situation squared away (Thanks!) And I've installed the E-Cool. I didn't have much chance to open it up today on the way into work because it is raining, but how can I easily tell that the E-Cool is working, short of putting a meter on the system? I couldn't fing the CAS line on the diag box, but I did on the ECU. But I did use the 12V switched form the diag box.

I don't know which I like more; installing this stuff or using it!

Thanks

Mike

[zoom2xtn]

MikeyLikesIt

Where are you located? I would like to meet some of the guys on this forum to talk about our cars and try and learn something about engines. I am clueless about engines. It would be nice if everyone would post their location in their profile but only a few of us do so.

Lee

[MikeyLikesIt]

MikeyLikesIt

Where are you located? I would like to meet some of the guys on this forum to talk about our cars and try and learn something about engines. I am clueless about engines. It would be nice if everyone would post their location in their profile but only a few of us do so.

Lee

I'm in SE PA.

Funny I actually know a girl from Johnson City. Small world.

This is a good forum to ask.

Mike

[zoom2xtn]

Thanks, MikeyLikesIt

I have no plans to be in SE PA so it's doubtful we'll ever meet in person, unless, of course, you come to the Gap ( Deals Gap --Tail of the Dragon, every July) or, say, "Doing the Charleston" in 2008(Low Country Miata Club) or maybe the Ridgerunner Miata Club or the Tri-Cities (TN-VA) Miata Club has some event you attend. I almost went to a central PA, "PACE" Miata Club event recently but was just too busy to go anywhere. There are only 1 or 2 Tri-City members who work on their cars. I'm not one of them. I know nothing about it but I'm the only one with a supercharger. It would be nice to spend some garage time with some supercharger owners who know about them.

Lee