WI Port

[raceskier]

I was bolting my Coldside back together from my leak detection adventure and was in the process of verifying all of the fittings were leak free. When I went to check the plug on the WI port, it wasn't there! Not exactly a small leak. It appears to be an odd thread. Anyone know what the thread size is?
Thanks.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is 8mm x 1. There is no such thing as a bolt for that hole. We had to actually make the bolts. That is the thread for the WI nozzles. Don't know how you lost it? Email me your address and I will drop one in the mail for you.

[raceskier]

Tom,

I don't know precisely how, but it must have just fallen out driving one day. I started this thread: http://brpforum.infopop.cc/groupee/forums/a/tpc/f/2251089761/m/1021082712 on the BRP Coldside forum.

I'll PM you my address. Thanks!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

LOL. I'm not allowed to read that. :)

I will drop one in the mail Monday. They are blue loctited in place. Don't know how it could fall out. Sorry about that.

[raceskier]

Tom,

Received the new WI port plug today. It is a real PITA to get in. I ended up pulling the fuel pressure dampener bracket in order to get room to screw in the plug. Hiding under part of the bracket was, you guessed it, the old plug! I guess it came out with enough velocity to reach that shelf but not enough ricochet around and bounce out of the engine compartment. It didn't appear to have any loctite on it. Oh well, now I have a spare. A good item to add to the post install fastener torque checklist.

Thanks again. Do I owe you anything for the plug?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Glad you got it in.

You don't owe me a dime. Shouldn't have come out in the first place. Sorry you had the problem in the first place.

[JTod]

It is 8mm x 1. There is no such thing as a bolt for that hole. We had to actually make the bolts. That is the thread for the WI nozzles. Don't know how you lost it? Email me your address and I will drop one in the mail for you.

If you tapped the hole for aquamist sized jets you can buy blanking plugs from them. I bought one for my W/I kit a couple of years ago...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I searched and searched and couldn't find them. BTW, that is a typo. It is really 8mm x 0.75. Sorry about that. Doesn't matter now as I have a load of them made in aluminum.

Did you buy it from Aquamist? As far as I could find, nobody actually makes bolts/screws in that thread.

[Banshee]

Do you know if WI port will fit nozzles other than aquamist? Also, do you need access to the inside of the manifold to install the nozzle?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I don't know if they are the same thread from manufacturer to manufacturer but you can buy just the Aquamist nozzles and use them with any kit.

You install it from the outside. That is the reason the recess is so deep. To get the nozzle tip into the inside for the spray pattern. I use an 11mm deep well socket. To start the little plug, I stick a wad of paper into the socket so the end of the plug just sticks out but can't push up the socket. To install a nozzle, do the same thing. Make sure you don't cross thread it. 0.75 is a real fine thread and the manifold is just aluminum.

[JTod]

I searched and searched and couldn't find them. BTW, that is a typo. It is really 8mm x 0.75. Sorry about that. Doesn't matter now as I have a load of them made in aluminum.

Did you buy it from Aquamist? As far as I could find, nobody actually makes bolts/screws in that thread.

I bought it from 3 SX Performance in N.C. - they had everything I needed at the time in stock.

Part number 806 358 M8 x .75 Blanking plug $4.00

Can be seen about half way down this page

http://www.aquamist.co.uk/sl/plist/frm-4-USD.html

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Thanks. Looks like they have a rep in Tucson.

[Banshee]

When you guys hooked up WI, which wire did you use to power the pump? Reading the instructions, it looks like it need a high amp wire, preferably directly from the battery. Is there any other way to power the pump?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I don't have ABS so I used that fuse.

[JTod]

When you guys hooked up WI, which wire did you use to power the pump? Reading the instructions, it looks like it need a high amp wire, preferably directly from the battery. Is there any other way to power the pump?

There is a big power wire that feeds juice to the fuse box near the firewall in the passenger side corner of the engine compartment - on my non-abs car it was near the windshield washer pump. It is a large gauge wire, can't remember exactly what size.

If you disassemble the fuse box by removing the mounting bolts and take the lid off you should be able to see it right in the center of the box. It has 10 mm nut holding the wire via a ring terminal as I recall. I ran another ring terminal on top of the original and fed it out the bottom of the box. Couldn't see it unless you were looking hard.

[Banshee]

Tom,

The ABS fuse is inside the engine bay?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes

[Banshee]

Well, it looks like I'm going the WI route. I just bought a coolingmist system with a aquamist nozzle. The WI port is a PITA to get at, but hopefully it'll be a one time deal. I may need that 105 pulley after all.

I'll let you guys know how it goes.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Remove the old plug with a 1/4" drive 11mm deep well socket. Then put a short piece of tube on the nozzla and run it out through the end of the socket and, using the tubing to steady the nozzle stert it gently using the socket and your fingers. It is a fine thread (8mm x 0.75) and will cross thread easily. Once it is mostly threaded in, then pull the piece of tubing and use the 1/4" drive ratchet to finish the job.

[Banshee]

Well, I got the aquamist water injector nozzle today, can't seem to find a hose that would fit that little barb.

How did you attach a hose to it? Is there a connector?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The hose is small and stiff and you push real hard. Mine never came off. It is still attached, as a matter of fact and It would be hard to pull off. Aquamist sells the tubing for it.

[Banshee]

Tom,

You don't happen to have an extra 6inch of that water injection line do you? I can't seem to find it locally anywhere.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I'm sure I do. My daughter works for the local company that distributes Legris fittings and tubing. :) Is 6" enough? Sounds short.

Drop me an email Tom@KnackToys.com and I'll send it.

[Banshee]

Thnx Tom,

Email sent.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

And replied. :)

[Banshee]

Got the fittings and tube you sent Tom, mucho thanx.

How do you get that damn little tube over the injector barb? I tried the brute force method and that didn't work. Any suggestions?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I think Curt warmed the tube and pushed real hard? Don't get it too hot though. I didn't do the install or removal. I looked at the one that was on my car and it still has a short piece of the tube attached and I don't think the tube will ever come back off.

[Banshee]

That's is turning out to be a bigger hassle than I initially thought. I got a bunch of fuel lines in the way of that WI port. I think I'm going to have to removal them for the install.

Is the WI bolt 11mm?

Thx

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The plug is 11mm. The WI nozzles are 3/8".

PS. I thought of a couple more things you needed so I stuck them in the box. :)

[Banshee]

Got everything hooked up today. Seems to work well. Only connection I need to make is from the nozzle hose to the pump. Should take less than 5 secs. I left that unhooked because I was adjusting the pressure switch (got it set at 6 psi.) It was quite funny as I had the hose from the pump tied to my windshield wiper. Every time I went into boost, it would spray all over my windshield.

Tomorrow, I'll put the 100mm pulley back on and see if this is able to tame my ping.

Hope everything goes well.

[Mathrips]

We want to hear how it goes.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I can'rt wait to hear how it goes. Your "kit" was reasonably priced. If it works well, maybe you'll share the parts locations and costs here on the board. I'm sure others would be interested.

[Banshee]

Got everything together this am including changing out the 95mm pulley for a 100mm pulley.

Before WI and using a 95mm pulley, I was getting 8-8.5lbs of boost at redline. I was getting lots of ping in 3rd and 4th gear run above 6-6.5k rpm.

Now with WI and a 100mm pulley, I'm seeing 9-9.25lbs of boost at redline. I get a slight ping at redline if I have the a/c on, but otherwise no ping. Pulls strongly. It's about 100F here in Houston with about 80% humidity. Not good conditions for FI.

I'm very happy with the set up. The worse part about the install was installing the nozzle. It wouldn't be an issue if you install it before putting the supercharger in, but once the supercharger is install, the fuel lines are in the way of the install. PITA. I highly recommend all those that are installing their supercharger to just put in the water injection nozzle before you install your supercharger. It only cost $19 for the nozzle.

I put together the entire kit for under $200, and that included about $30 worth of fittings that I didn't use.

I'll dyno it next week.

[Banshee]

Forgot to add, I'm using 100% water right now. I think the ping will go away if I add alcohol. I want to make sure everything is working well without and leaks before I add a flamable liquid.

[Banshee]

For those that are interested in putting a similar kit together, these are the parts I used:

150 psi black surflow pump from coolingmist -$70
Aquamist nozzle 0.4mmx4mm from flyin miata -$19
Assorted fittings and hose from Devilsown -$40
Check valve and Brass water filter from coolingmist-$30
Boost switch from coolingmist-$15
40amp spdt relay and wires -$6
Short length 4mm hose and 1 fitting from Tom (free-Thanks Tom, couldn't have done it without this part)

Of course you can just buy a kit from devilsown online for $175 and the nozzle from flyin miata and be done with it. The reason that I didn't was because I wanted the black pump and check valve from cooling mist.

If you guys have any questions, let me know.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Thanks for posting that. However, you shouldn't post the 'free' part. I'll lose my "Mr. Abrasive" moniker. ;)

[99mx5]

Banshee,
Can you post pics of your setup?

[Kyp J]

That is the total parts needed, no expensive controller box etc?

Why the "black" pump? Is it better functionally or just because of the color coordination thing?

I haven't researched the water injection yet so know nothing about "good/better/best" yet. It seems I always do something and find out later there was a better/cheaper way.

[Mathrips]

Banshee could you also remind us what year motor and are you also running the extra fuel injector e-cool at the same time?
Thanks

[Banshee]

I have a 2001 with just the ELF for fueling. No ecool. 100mm pulley, engine is otherwise stock.


how do I upload an image?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

When you go to make a post, just under the box you type in at the left is "Add image to post". Click that to add an image.

[Banshee]

http://upload4.postimage.org/377896/water2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/377896/photo_hosting.html)
http://upload4.postimage.org/377899/water5.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/377899/photo_hosting.html)

[Banshee]

The pump fits nicely between the canister and the brace on the driver side. 3mm to spare. I'm going to add a water hammer arrestor to the kit once I get it.

[chuckerants]

What are those red thingys around the shock towers?

[Banshee]

What are those red thingys around the shock towers?

I was looking for the Christmas look. j/k.

They're the tower brace for a Freedom STB. Unfortunately, the brace won't fit with the throttle cable pulley. I even cut out part of the throttle body bracket, but it still won't fit.

[Banshee]

That is the total parts needed, no expensive controller box etc?

Why the "black" pump? Is it better functionally or just because of the color coordination thing?

I haven't researched the water injection yet so know nothing about "good/better/best" yet. It seems I always do something and find out later there was a better/cheaper way.

That's the entire parts list. The pump is activated by a simple boost switch. Turns on above a set PSI and off below it. Coolingmist sells a tricked out control unit if you want, it cost $200 and fully programable stand alone. (If you buy it, you don't need the relay or boost switch, saving you about $20, so net cost would be $180)

The black pump according to Coolingmist was made specifically for them for the purpose of water/methonol injection. It's a little more compact than the other 150psi pumps that other vendors sells. It fit perfectly in the spot that I used. The other pumps won't.

I'm happy with the budget kit that I've put together, it seems to work well so far. I'm sure others will find a better way.

[Banshee]

I bought this "Gear Ratchet" hollow drive set to install the injector. It's just like a regular 1/4 drive ratchet except that it's hollow so the hose can be install on the nozzle before you install the water nozzle. It would of been impossible to do otherwise.

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?pid=00930027000&vertical=Sears&BV_UseBVCookie=Yes

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

BTW, if you have the FFS kit, the SS has a totally independent second map that is just wiating to drive the WI. That is why I did the dual map version. It is totally programmable based on RPM and/or boost.

[Ronin]

Tom,
So the SS would replace the "boost switch and relay" in Banshee's part list? And you can program it just like the Coolingmist "tricked out control unit" to have variable amount of WI based on boost?

Which SS unit is it (e.g., AIC1-A2H)?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Yes. I had it on mine that way before I removed it. I set it to have more and more duty cycle with an increase in RPM and Boost. It is actually a 3D map.

It is the AIC1-A4H. two map, 4 injector controller.

[Banshee]

Tom, If you send me an E-Cool kit, I'll happily evaluate it for you and tell how it works with my kit. :D

I'll do that out of the goodness of my heart. Just let me know. :P

Its going on the dyno tomorrow. Right now I have very slight ping at redline with the A/C on. None with the A/C off.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hard to get rid of the ping with the AC on. Water temperature is important. AC on it gets hot.

What plugs are you running?

E-Cool? What is that? ;)

[Banshee]

I'm using 8 range ix iridium plugs.

I've made a couple of runs late last pm. I think I'm running a little lean at WOT. I didn't adjust the ELF when I up the pulley since I was rich with the 95mm. Perhaps that will help. If not, I'm going to have to pull some timing, or perhaps add more water.

[Kyp J]

Is there a vendor site or good search key for Mnet that explains the details of water injection in general?

I was wondering how the variability of the water jet with boost is accomplished. Is it pulsed like a fuel injector? Sprays continuously and volume changed with pressure?

With the SS unit you would still need a high current relay for the pump wouldn't you? With the SS providing the activation of the relay with one of the injector harnesses?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

With the Aquamist, there was the pump which ran whenever the engine was running and an inline valve that the SS turned on. The valve was pulsed as per how you set up the 3D map in the SS. Normally, it is just "pick the right size nozzle" and turn on the pump and/or valve when you want mist. "Normally" you don't need it untill 5500+RPM so an RPM switch works well or you don't need it untill you reach a certain boost level \so a pressure switch works well. I think most people just set it to come on in the RPM/Boost range where ping occurs. That also helps conserve water.

The Aquamist valve worked just like a high impedence injector.

[Banshee]

Kyp, you can check out:
http://www.waterinjection.info/phpBB2/
http://www.waterinjection.info/

Just came back from the dyno.
http://upload4.postimage.org/389055/DJdyno_2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/389055/photo_hosting.html)
http://upload4.postimage.org/389058/airfuel_2.jpg (http://upload4.postimage.org/389058/photo_hosting.html)

[Banshee]

My current setup:
2001 MP62 coldside with 100mm pulley. Water injection runnin 100%water, 2mm vvt mod, J&S safeguard.

The J&S started to pull timing around 6400 rpm even though I didn't hear any ping, perhaps its too sensitive?

I'm making 10 psi of boost at redline. I hear that its a little high for this pulley, so a midpipe may be in the future.

I ran the car a little richer on the first run and lost 10horses.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Just a touch lean at the end. Any ping?

Is that the ELF or ELF+ or JRPC?

[Banshee]

regular elf. I don't hear any ping, but the J&S did light light up. On the next run, I had it start taking timing at 9psi. Still didn't hear any ping.

The big concern I have is that I'm starting to loose torque at 5k rpm where as all the other coldside runs seems to be completely flat till redline.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Your fuel starts getting lean up there. If you can add some from 5500 and up without adding it below, you might pick up some of that.

[Banshee]

unfortunately, the current ELF does not allow you to add fuel only at certain rpm.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

have to wait (patiently?) for the ELF+?

[Ronin]

Kyp, you can check out:
http://www.waterinjection.info/phpBB2/
http://www.waterinjection.info/ I have tried to register for this WI site, but no activation e-mail was sent to me. No spam filter was active on my account. I tried to contact the forum master, but no response. Suggestions?

[Banshee]

try a different email?

[chuckerants]

Banshee, you're getting 10 PSI of boost with a 100mm pulley? I'm using a 105mm pulley and getting 8~8.5 PSI boost.

Tom can correct me if I'm wrong, but HS or CS, the boost should be consistent. Using a 100mm pulley, I was only getting around 6 PSI of boost.

Did you try disconnecting the cat while on the dyno to see what effect that had? My car increased by 10 HP when I did that.

[Banshee]

Well, that's what I'm debating. I don't think I have a clogged cat. It only has 33k miles on it. KYP who has the same set up I do, was getting the same boost I was with the same pulley. Plus he tested his oem midpipe and exhaust and found that it was not restrictive.

Ari also got 10psi at redline when he used a 100mm pulley and that was with a 99 miata.

I think the coldside manifold will cause the boost to spike at redline. I get a consistant 7.5-8 psi all the way until I get to 6.5k rpm, then it bumps up almost 2 psi in the final 700 rpm. I just think the BP engine are inefficient at redline.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Best way to tell is to put it on a dyno and make a run with the exhaust in place and then a run with the exhaust un-coupled at the header/midpipe connection.

[Kyp J]

I just got a Goodwin 2.5" midpipe with high flow cat just to be safe. And, also, since I haven't hit 1 million $ in parts yet.

If you (Banshee) do the dyno with and without cat before my engine is back together, post the results. I still think the VVT helps cause the higher pressures. (except 99mx5 doesn't have that ???).