Charge Cooling - E-Cool enough by itself?

[MarkB]

I have a non-intercooled MP62 hotside at 8.5 psi on a 2001 Miata. I use 94 octane gas and get by thru the use of the JR BTC to pull timing. Also temperatures are not that hot here in the Pacific Northwest (Vancouver). I would like to run stock timing and get rid of the JR BTC. Does anyone have experience using E-Cool alone to get rid of ping and run stock timing at that boost level? It seems that Chuck would achieve that result on his '99 but I am worried about my high compression pistons so I am wondering if I need to go straight to the TDR intercooler instead.

Many thanks.

[HotsideHamid]

Mark,
I don't have an answer, but I am very curious about this myself. I have a '97 with a hotside, but I am only running around 6lbs. of boost. I also am not running any timing retard- I'm at 10 degrees, just like BRP said I should do. I wonder if that recommendation is safe? I still need a Wide Band and better fuel management, but I wonder if the Ecool should be my next upgrade too.

BTW- I live in Anacortes....

-Hamid

[MarkB]

Hi Hamid,

You have 92 gas there don't you?

Anyways, it seems like not many E-Cool have sold yet so perhaps there is no one that has been in a situation similar to mine.

[chuckerants]

Mark,

I'm running 11.4 PSI of boost using e-Cool and WI. We only have 91 octane here so I use about 8 ozs of Torco per tank (or around 3 glug-glug-glugs). I am currently running a 115mm/65mm but seriously consider going up AT LEAST one pulley size.

I got the WI as an even more intake cooling measure.

[HotsideHamid]

Yes, I only have 92 here. You guys have 94? That's pretty sweet.

-Hamid

[MiataMTF]

I have a non-intercooled MP62 hotside at 8.5 psi on a 2001 Miata. I use 94 octane gas and get by thru the use of the JR BTC to pull timing. Also temperatures are not that hot here in the Pacific Northwest (Vancouver). I would like to run stock timing and get rid of the JR BTC. Does anyone have experience using E-Cool alone to get rid of ping and run stock timing at that boost level? It seems that Chuck would achieve that result on his '99 but I am worried about my high compression pistons so I am wondering if I need to go straight to the TDR intercooler instead.

Many thanks.
What are you using for fuel management? The e-Cool is setup with two PC-Pros, one for the main injectors and a second for the e-Cool injector. e-Cool alone might work but you might want to consider the split-second 5th injector controller as well.

Regardin you options, check with Tom, his '05 coldside was running good with e-Cool only. I think the SC was provided 8-to-10psi. I'm running about 8psi on my JRSC and the e-Cool works great on lousy 91-octane CA gas.

BTW - I'd keep the BTC since it's already installed. I don't think it interferes with the PC-Pro.

Mike.

[Serpico]

MarkB,

I think you're right in the grey area with your setup. I have an 01' as well and found the even with BRP's small A/A intercooler AND the E-Cool I still had some pinging during the hottest part of the summer at 8.5psi. These 01's are a pain in the butt to boost when you start getting above 8psi with a hotside.

What I ended up doing was adding a J&S Utrasafeguard (with knock gauge to monitor pinging) and a PWR radiator. My current boost level is around 9 maybe 9.5 and I haven't heard any pinging all winter. I won't know if my pinging troubles are gone until the hot weather returns.

I do know that as long as I pull about .8 degrees of timing per psi starting at 4psi, that my knock gauge shows no activity. If I turn the boost retard down, I see a lot of activity on the J&S gauge indicating that some pinging is taking place ( I don't rely on my ears since I'm 42 and have worked in noisy enviroments since I was 20).

Too answer you're original question,,,,,, I don't think E-Cool alone will work, but I could be wrong as every car is different.

I think you have a bunch of options though.

In no particular order:

Pull timing
reduce boost
add intercooler (I would choose the TDR one)
add water injection
E-Cool
Torco octane boost

Good Luck!

[MarkB]

Thanks guys.

Serpico - your results are not particularly encouraging I guess. However, I guess you would be running 12 psi without the intercooler so you would have a larger delta T. I think my pulleys are 77.5mm / 130mm = 1.68:1.

I have my JR BTC set to supposedly pull 0.6 degrees/psi but I've read that it doesn't work well with later model Miatae.

I'd like to "just" use 94 octane, and don't want to be refilling a water tank (WI), so perhaps I should just go for the TDR I/C? More pricey and install effort tho.

MiataMTF - If I can convince myself that I can run stock timing then I want to get a PC-Pro for the main injectors. Otherwise I want to get one unit that can control timing as well as fueling.

Regarding Tom's Coldside, I don't know how similar the scenarios are since the manifolds are different. Maybe they are similar?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

I have run an extra injector (E-Cool) for years on my hotside MP62. For testing I ran with and without the extra injector turned on. When I turned the extra injector off I turned up the fuel (with the ELF at the time) on the main injectors so that the a/f ratio still stayed around 12:1. At least in my case, I didn't see any difference in the ping threshold point. I found I still had to turn the timing retard to the same point to stop the ping. Granted, my engine wasn't in perfect shape at the time... maybe that had some influence.

What I do think though is running the extra injector is a good idea once you try to make over say, 180rwhp and want to maintain stock ECU and stock injectors. It allows you to keep the main injectors running a reasonable amount of fuel, within what they were designed to flow, and allow better driveability than trying to turn up the main injectors to their limit to squeeze out that last 20-30rwhp. The result is better driveability and a safer situation when you are seeing 7000rpm at WOT :).

As far as the cooling of an extra injector, I still have my doubts. Theoretically at least, even ALL the fuel used for a 12:1 a/f ratio will cause a max temp drop of 52 deg F according to the latent heat of evaporation for gasoline. Thus, for the percentage of fuel coming from the extra injector I would expect it results in dropping the entire air charge around 20 deg F at the most. It is probably enough to buy another 10-20rwhp at the same ping threshold, but I wouldn't rely on it as a substitute for a good air/air IC that can drop the air charge temp 150-200 deg F.

That all said, good control of the a/f ratio at all load conditions is the most important step in making a reliable setup. I think Tom has proven that with the hp improvements on the Hotsides he has tuned with the PC Pro + E-Cool combos.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I know you guys are skeptics BUT http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Brr.wmv. My manifold alone weighs 11 pounds of solid aluminum. It has more thermal mass than the air inside by a long shot. When we were on the dyno, we monitored the manifold outside wall (3/4" thick too) and the manifold dropped over 20 degrees. I can make the air as cold as an A/A IC. With that said, I typically set the E-Cool to not cool the air that far as it is only necessary to cool down to the point of no ping. The gain in WHP for 200F air vs 100F air is too small to worry about. Easier to get that WHP gain with a larger pulley. :) Where'd that old "pulley boy" go?

[Banshee]

Tom,

On that video, is it possible that the fuel was directly sprayed on the temp sensor and thus creating an erroneous reading?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

It is possible but, if it is an erroneous reading, the manifold would not have cooled. Besides, the ping goes away. I am running ~20PSI on my 99 and it doesn't have an intercooler. Granted, I have to make the fuel decent BUT, even good fuel would have a serious problem if the charge was too hot. I was a skeptic as well but I just look at the data and I am a believer. Faith is hard but an important part of life.

[chuckerants]

Tom,

On that video, is it possible that the fuel was directly sprayed on the temp sensor and thus creating an erroneous reading?

If the fuel can cool the sensor, doesn't that also mean it's cooling the air by the same (about ) amount?

Also, I admit I'm still a skeptic when it comes to e-Cool, but how in the world am I able to run such high boost without pinging now with e-Cool if it didn't work? The last time Tom and I were working on getting the PC Pro dialed in on my car, we disconnected the WI and my still did not ping.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

If the Coldside runs without ping on a '94-'00 engine with a 150 pulley and no WI on pump 93 octane gas, with no fuel addictives to boost the octane, making somewhere north of 250rwhp, I will be a believer in E-Cool actually cooling the charge that much :). At that point, the whole idea of the R4 setup will be obsolete.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If the Coldside runs without ping on a '94-'00 engine with a 150 pulley and no WI on pump 93 octane gas, with no fuel addictives to boost the octane, making somewhere north of 250rwhp, I will be a believer in E-Cool actually cooling the charge that much :). At that point, the whole idea of the R4 setup will be obsolete.

Bill

Ah, a challenge. Can you "reliably" run a GOOD (ie. properly cut) 150mm pulley and make north of 250WHP with an A/A IC on 93 octane? or is that why your engine went south? I think that, if you can do it, so can I. However, I don't think you can do it. Besides, I would not want to run a STOCK Miata engine at 250WHP on 93 octane. However, I still think that, if you can do it reliably with an A/A, I can do it with E-Cool. If temperature is the REAL problem, not boost, then 93 or 103 should make no difference.

Chuck, I guess I need to borrow your car. :)

[Serpico]

Like I said before...I'm feeling better and better about my tiny 115mm and measly 190-195whp... :)

It's GREAT that some of you are willing to push the envelope , so the rest of us will know where we stand !

What I want to see now is some serious testing on an 01' hotside and no Tom, I don't want to be the monkey.... :biggrin:

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Whoa now! I knew my comment would come off sounding like a challenge and/or a put down. I am simply stating by facts, really :).

I know for sure that a stock '99-'00 engine (this was not tested on mine) can make 280rwhp without ping with the R4 setup on pump 93 octane and no fuel additives. I am simply talking about ping, not the engine being strong enough to reliably handle this (in stock form) on the street or track. To me the lack of ping is a good indicator to how cold the air charge is in the combination. Of course, if there was ping, one wouldn't know if the cause was a number of other variables such as poor air distribution, poor fuel distribution, overadvanced timing, lean a/f mixture, overheating radiator, etc. However, if there isn't ping then the rest of these can be ruled out, with us knowing how sensitive our supercharged setups are to having pinging problems when any one of those other things become an issue.

My experience is air charge temp independent of boost directly effects the ping threshold and also the octane needs to not ping. The only evidence I need for this is to point out that I have run my engine with the air/air IC and no ping, then even going with a lower boost pulley and removing the air/air IC it started pinging. Same octane and same a/f ratio. You could turn it around and realize that logically this also means that if a given setup is pinging because the air charge temp is too high, higher octane can stop the ping.

Don't take this the wrong way, but so far the most rwhp I have seen reported for the Coldside MP62 is around 225rwhp. I haven't seen evidence of what occurs at higher power levels on them. At what point do they need higher than 93 octane to run without ping on the dyno? Not even worrying about street/track reliability, but rather just for testing purposes to find the margin point. With that info then apples to apples could be compared with what has been tested on the R4 setups running the TDR IC.

I would love it if the Coldside turns out to be able to make it to the same ping threshold point as the R4 setup. Then we would have a setup that would much less expensive, simpler, lighter, etc. that would have the same (or better) max performance potential. Then also I would be ditching my R4 stepchild setup and go with a Coldside on the max power project I plan to start soon. :)

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I don't mind the challenge. After all, it IS Chuck's car. ;)

I am not sure one injector will supply enough fuel to do both the cooling and the needed fuel for 250WHP. But I know it will do the cooling. May need larger injector for the base fuel. But then, you would need that for the A/A setup as well. 240cc injectors just wont hack it. Probably 310s would do the job. The really good news is that the PC-Pro doesn't care what size the main injectors are. Just a case of what the ECU will idle with.

Now, the caveat is that, at the moment, I just don't have the time. However, maybe Chuck does. :) Where can I get some 310s that will plug in to the Miata harness?

[FormerDatsun510Man]

II am not sure one injector will supply enough fuel to do both the cooling and the needed fuel for 250WHP. But I know it will do the cooling.

What's the difference? The same fuel used for cooling goes into the combustion chamber to be burned :). What if you just use a larger extra injector rather than putting in larger main injectors? Or would fuel distribution become an issue?

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

If you make the air too cold (drop below the dew point), the fuel precipitates out and puddles. Like WI if you send in too much. Then, when you lift and hard vacuum hits, the fuel instantly evaporates and tries to keep the RPM up when you would like it to drop. I find just under 200F is a good temperature to run the air. Under those circumstances, the main injectors need to make up the balance. Not sure the 240s can do that at 250WHP???

[FormerDatsun510Man]

I see, that makes sense. Yes, the stock '99-'00 injectors won't give you enough fuel with a single 550cc for 250rwhp I think. Though maybe, it would be close, the stock '01+ injectors (close to 270cc) would.

Bill

[MarkB]

I know you guys are skeptics BUT http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Brr.wmv. My manifold alone weighs 11 pounds of solid aluminum. It has more thermal mass than the air inside by a long shot. When we were on the dyno, we monitored the manifold outside wall (3/4" thick too) and the manifold dropped over 20 degrees. I can make the air as cold as an A/A IC. With that said, I typically set the E-Cool to not cool the air that far as it is only necessary to cool down to the point of no ping. The gain in WHP for 200F air vs 100F air is too small to worry about. Easier to get that WHP gain with a larger pulley. :) Where'd that old "pulley boy" go?

Hi Tom,

So are you convinced that E-Cool will be good enough to run stock timing for my situation (or as good as the TDR I/C), after I also get the PC-Pro for the main injectors?

Thanks.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hi Tom,

So are you convinced that E-Cool will be good enough to run stock timing for my situation (or as good as the TDR I/C), after I also get the PC-Pro for the main injectors?

Thanks.

Yep. If we can make Chuck's MP62 hotside run on 91 yours will run on 94. He is making a lot more boost than you. You will have to clean the carbon off the pistons to make it work right. You probably have a lot of build up. The 01-05 makes a lot of carbon when run rich.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I see, that makes sense. Yes, the stock '99-'00 injectors won't give you enough fuel with a single 550cc for 250rwhp I think. Though maybe, it would be close, the stock '01+ injectors (close to 270cc) would.

Bill

I was just relaxing and di=oing some math and cogitated up the following:

The stock 99 injectors are 240cc at 43.5PSI. That makes them roughly 240 x 1.19 = 286cc at 62PSI. Times 4 = 1144cc. The extra injector is ~500cc at 43.5 PSI = 595cc. Total maxed out fuel available is 1144 + 595 = 1739cc. HP capability for a boosted engine is roughly cc/5 or 347.8 based on 90%DF. Looks like ample to me unless my math is in error someplace? Even correcting the pressure across he injector for 15 PSI on the outlet of the injector, still yeilds just over 300HP. If you want to further be conservative and use 80% DF, it would drop to about 270HP. As that is CHP, you would need to subtract ~30 for WHP or 240WHP at 80%DF. I, for one, have no problem with 90%DF. :)

[FormerDatsun510Man]

When I calculate it in terms of mass air and mass of fuel:

Mass fuel:
(4 x 240cc + 500cc) * (62/43.5)^.5 = 1743cc/min
1743 cc/min of gasoline = 1257 gram/min

Max mass airflow:
1257 gram/min * 12 (for a 12:1 a/f ratio) = 15084 gram/min
15084 gram/min = 444 CFM

CFM of MP62 with 150/65 pulley:
62cid * 7000rpm * 150/65 * 75% VE /12^3 = 435 CFM

So, by my calculations you barely have enough fuel to maintain a 12:1 a/f for the 150 pulley with the stock '99-'00 injectors + 500cc extra injector. That assumes that you have all of them at 100% duty.

To keep it at a max 90% duty you would then need (240cc/.9) = 267cc for the main injectors, which would be pretty much the '01+ injector size :) and the extra injector would need to be 500/.9 = 556cc. Perhaps go with a 600cc or so to give you headroom with the extra injector if needed.

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Don't forget that the injectors are rated at 43.5 PSI fuel pressure and the Miata runs at 62 PSI fuel pressure. That means the actual flow is the square root of 62/43.5 times rated or about 1.20 (20%) more than rated. That helps the margin. ;)

240 x 1.2 = 288 and 500 x 1.2 = 600.

Some conversions to help simplify the math are:

Conversions
500cc per minute is approximately equal to 49lbs per hour which is equal to approximately 100hp.
lbs/hour = cc per minute / 10.5
lbs per hour = HP / 2.04
cc per minute = lbs per hour x 10.5
cc per minute = HP x 5
HP = cc per minute / 5
HP = lbs per hour x 2.04

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The calculations I showed included taking the 62psi fuel rail pressure into account. Interesting the difference in the numbers by the two different methods. I am thinking that either the estimate for BSFC you were using of .49 is a bit low or perhaps the 150 pulley is capable of around 347 crank hp :).

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Oops. Sorry, I missed that.

The rule of thumb I have read on sites like RC say 0.5 lb/hr/HP. That is the same as 50 lb/hr x 2.04 = 100 (roughly). Seems like my numbers and 'rules of thumb' agree with RC? I may have missed something but the 240cc injectors at 62 PSI make roughly 285cc or about 28 lbs/hr. That times 2 is roughly 56 HP times 4 is 224 HP. The extra injector is worth about 2 of those so add another 112 and you hae 336. subtract 35 for the drive train loss and call it roughly 300 and then take 80% of that for safety and you are safely at 240WHP. SO 250 isn't far away. That is by RC's numbers and mine are similar. Just going at it from a Q.E.D. direction. No sense in re-generating the formulas.

[chuckerants]

Can you guys just geek out in the corner somewhere? Thanks. :)

[MarkB]

Yep. If we can make Chuck's MP62 hotside run on 91 yours will run on 94. He is making a lot more boost than you. You will have to clean the carbon off the pistons to make it work right. You probably have a lot of build up. The 01-05 makes a lot of carbon when run rich.

Alright, I'm going to put my money where your mouth is. It shouldn't take too long to report the (hopefully good) news!

[MarkB]

OK, the parts finally came in. Swapped the PC-Pro in place of the old powercard pretty easily. Seems like it might be a bit more powerful - its probably a bit leaner, but I can't hear any ping. Still bogs down in low RPMs even at the default setting of green = 1 and red/blue = 4 so I'm not sure what to make of that yet.

Going to get the E-Cool in on Monday hopefully, then I'll go to the dyno and adjust the two PC-Pros and hopefully everything will sort itself out. I'll also hopefully check #s with exhaust on and off. Any other suggestions? I think I'll try to clean those piston tops on Monday too with some water or seafoam.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Main PC-Pro should be green, yellow, red at 1 and Yel/Blu at 4 and Red/Blu at 4. E-Cool should be Grn/Blu at 4. Those are only starting numbers and will need to be adjusted as needed for your kit.

[MarkB]

Yep, that's why I'm looking forward to the dyno. :)

[Supermiataman]

Yep, that's why I'm looking forward to the dyno. :)

Any updates?

[MarkB]

I finally installed the E-Cool yesterday and it seems to be working fine. I have the JR BTC and turned that to zero and still didn't hear any ping while driving up a hill next to concrete roadside barrier (the sound reflection makes ping more audible if its there) or jersey barrier as some of you guys call it.

There is still some hesitation below 3k RPM but I hope that the dyno will show why and I'll be able to tune it out. I have a request to book time there but they aren't open on the weekend so it'll be next week.

Tom - does the other dual-colour setting on the E-Cool PCPro do anything? The Grn/Blu is at 4 and so is the other one (Yel/Blu?). I understand that the Grn, Yel, and Red don't do anything on that controller.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mark,

I added yel/blu to the recent cards to allow fuel to be added at the start of boost. It should be 1, not 4. That could be the change you feel at the onset of boost. Too much fuel. Set it back to 1 and try it.

[BlownMX5]

Mark,

I added yel/blu to the recent cards to allow fuel to be added at the start of boost. It should be 1, not 4. That could be the change you feel at the onset of boost. Too much fuel. Set it back to 1 and try it.

Tom, how would we know if our E-Cool PC-Pro has this functionality or not?

Pat.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Flip through the lights on your e-cool and see if you have a yel/blu.


Tom, how would we know if our E-Cool PC-Pro has this functionality or not?

Pat.

[BlownMX5]

Flip through the lights on your e-cool and see if you have a yel/blu.

OK, now I'm :confused:. According to the PC-Pro instructions, in the E-Cool section, it says For the PC-Pros used for the E-Cool 5th injector, the only adjustment is the Yellow-Blue. It will add or remove fuel across the board. The Green, Yellow and Red lights still show up but have no function.

I have a yellow/blue and a green/blue in addition to the "dormant" green/yellow/red lights. Did you mean to say that you added a green/blue to the recent cards?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That was a typo. Thanks for pointing it out. I have corrected it. It has always been the green-blue and that was the only adjustment until just recently. If you have a yellow-blue, it is to add some fuel at the onset of boost for tip in cooling. On my two cars it is still set to zero.

[TucsonYellow]

Did MarkB get to the dyno yet?

Tom, what kind of setback is there going to be on the 1.6L kit with that bad cylinder on the test mule?

Phil

[MarkB]

Argh. The dyno I wanted to go to is understaffed right now. The only operator was out at trade shows and is leaving again so I would have to wait another few weeks to get in there. Another nearby shop has a mustang dyno - but its broken right now... So I found another shop not too far away and I should be able to get in next week...

[MarkB]

Hey,

I got to the dyno and got the car tuned. It was a dyno dynamics dyno so the operator could hold specific RPMs so that I could dial in each range. However, couldn't get that air:fuel ratio as flat as I hoped (mostly varying from 11:1 to 12:1), and I still have a slightly lean spike at ~3200 RPM. I seem to recall that the lean spike was not supposed to exist in the PC Pro (I had it in the PC and wanted to get rid of it). The power is ~175 rwhp dynojet equivalent which is what I was hoping. Air:fuel was measured with a tail pipe sniffer.

I've heard a couple pings here and there in the mid range RPMs since tuning so I need to turn the E-Cool up a bit more I guess. That'll move me a bit further towards 11:1 at the tailpipe. I think Tom has said he thinks that those readings are typically 0.5 leaner than pre-cat so that would mean closer to 10.5:1.

I've been trying to get the logs from the shop so I can attach some graphs. Maybe will get them on Monday.

Mark

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Mark, When you post the graphs, post the settings for the PC-Pros too.

[MiataMTF]

Regarding that lean spike at 3200-RPM, try shifting the Red-Blue up two lights and vary the green (<3000) setting. That should spike the fuel as it transitions from green to yellow (that's what mine does on my JRSC).

[MarkB]

Sorry, my settings were :

Green 4
Yellow 3.5
Red 3
Yellow/blue 8
Red/blue 8

and E-Cool:

Green/blue 5
Yellow/blue 1

My settings are I think similar to most of the other 01+ out there and quite a bit richer than the default recommendation.

[MarkB]

Here are the scans of the printouts the shop gave me. The other Dyno Dynamics shop in Vancouver uses a 19% increase in their results which they say makes them comparable with DynoJet results - i.e. so 145 whp on this dyno becomes 173 whp on their dyno.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

That A/F graph looks pretty good to me. 11.5 to 12. You will need higher settings than others as you don't have the 5th injector to help with fuel.

[MarkB]

That A/F graph looks pretty good to me. 11.5 to 12. You will need higher settings than others as you don't have the 5th injector to help with fuel.

I do have the 5th injector -

E-Cool:

Green/blue 5
Yellow/blue 1

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Then it almost sounds like the kit is making more boost than the cards see so they are fueling for a smaller number? In any case, the graph looks just fine and I wouldn't worry too much about it. Just for a check, if you unplug the 5th injector, does the A/F drop way off?

[MarkB]

Okay, thanks. I'm not sure why you would think the boost at the cards would be less than the boost at the intake manifold since my numbers are similar to others with 01+ that have dynoed their cars. The tube is attached to the cruise control nipple.

I can check if the car pings when unplugging the 5th injector but usually I don't like to try to make the car ping. I'm pretty sure that its working based on the adjustments I made at the dyno (reducing red and increasing e-cool). Also, you told me you had actually tested that 5th injector before shipping so it should be working.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I just like to be double sure.

[MarkB]

Well, turns out there was no difference when unplugging my E-Cool connector - so the conclusion is that the E-Cool wasn't working. I guess there just wasn't much pinging cuz I'm at ~6.5psi and 94 octane. Anyways, I confirmed that the PC-Pro was the problem by grounding one of the signal wires to the 5th injector at Tom's suggestion which caused it to flood the engine (ie the injector and wiring works fine).

However, my car is idling unsteady and doesn't start sometimes now. Any hints for how to get it back to normal? Check engine light keeps coming back on after resetting. Many thanks.

[tann3r]

What code is it throwing?

[MarkB]

I don't have a code puller. Maybe I can get my mechanic to read it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

No reason for fiiring the E-Cool injector for less than a second to cause a residual priblem and/or a CEL. We will be better able to help when you get the code. A lot of the part stores will read the code for you for free.

[MarkB]

This problem definitely was caused by manually firing the E-Cool injector. What normally is happening is this
- initial cranking gives nothing
- the 2nd cranking it usually starts, but only if I press the gas pedal. the engine is quite rough at this point
- i need to maintain high revs (2000 rpm) for 15 sec or so otherwise the engine will stall
- then it drives fine and usually idles fine altho sometimes it gets into a cycle where it almost stalls then revs up to 1500 then almost stalls...

My mechanic won't pull my code for free. I can't find any part stores here that read codes. Any advice?

[Bo0osted]

Go to autozone and borrow a code puller. They rent them out but u have to charge it on ur card first.

[MarkB]

Sorry, I guess my location is not obvious... I'm in Vancouver, BC. No Autozones here.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sounds like you have a loose wire/connector in the PC-Pro harness. Maybe you loosened a connector/wire when you tested the E-Cool PC-Pro?

[MarkB]

I can check my connections. I didn't really pull on anything when I was checking the E-Cool wires before tho. However, how could the piggyback affect startup and idle??? My vacuum looks the same as always on my crappy gauge.

My roadstersport exhaust seems to be giving a lot more of those "backfiring" sounds on deceleration than before as well.

[MarkB]

The 5th injector was the problem - it was leaking after performing that test. My CEL is gone and idle is fine after putting the original fuel line back in. Tom offered to fix the injector.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Probably picked up a fleck of dirt when replacing the fuel line.