PC-Pro new technology

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

New things coming for the PC-Pro. Roll down to the "Dobeck" part of the latest Innovate newsletter. :-)

http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/resources/news16.php

[Bill @ Fast Forward]

Looks like I will need to get an LC-1 :).

Bill

[chuckerants]

And to think I bought a Zeitronix. :(

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I should have one to test shortly.

[99mx5]

Should work with an LM-1...

[chuckerants]

Tom, are you receiving a separate PC Pro to test with this?

[Scuba Steve]

Hmm, I might need to install my LC-1, it was the one upgrade I have not yet installed.

Tom - Do you know if this is an upgrade that can be applied to existing Oc-Pros?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

At the moment, I don't know much more than you. Really not sure about upgrading?

[cmetzner]

So, explain this to me in simple terms. Now, Tom has mapped the fuel curve and loaded that into the PCPro.

Gen 3 of the PCPro allow the user to dial in an A/F ratio; the LC-1 monitors the afr; sends the signal to the Gen 3 and the Gen 3 will adjust the stock and/or auxiallary injectors?

Can the old PCPros be updated to perform like this?

[chuckerants]

Can the old PCPros be updated to perform like this?

This has already been asked a few times today and Tom doesn't know yet. I'm sure he'll let us know if it'll backward compatible.

[cmetzner]

OK, now I see. That's what I get for not reading all the way through. I saw the article and then starting checking the various websites. Oh well, any diversion at work is a day well spent.

Why didn't Mazda just make an ECU that controls extra injectors and Tom would not have had to spend all this time.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Update. It uses the same PC-Pro as I have been sending. Just a software update. I will have one next week and install and test is as soon as I have any time (January? :)). After that, I will update software as needed for anyone with my PC-Pro for free. You will then need an LC-1. The simple version is plenty, so I am told.

Sooooooooooo, the old PC-Pros are NOT obsolete.

[chuckerants]

Update. It uses the same PC-Pro as I have been sending. Just a software update. I will have one next week and install and test is as soon as I have any time (January? :)). After that, I will update software as needed for anyone with my PC-Pro for free. You will then need an LC-1. The simple version is plenty, so I am told.

Sooooooooooo, the old PC-Pros are NOT obsolete.

Can any other WBs be used instead of the LC-1?

[99mx5]

Another case of superior parts to go with superior service!!!!
:cheers2: :rockon:

[99mx5]

I posted in the Innovate Motorsports forum and Klaus reponded...

"In respect to the analog outs, the LM-1 and LC-1 are similar and can be programmed for the same ranges."

So, if the DP Gen3 (PCPro) uses the programmable analog outputs of a wideband, then all is well if you can program your analog out to their specs.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I will test it with the AEM as well. Supposedly it is a speed issue and the Innovate is supposed to be faster. It just needs a 0-5 or 1-4 volt signal.

[chuckerants]

Most WBs including my Zeitronix has a 0~5v output. However, what I'm concerned about is that the PC Pro has TWO analog signals that it isn't being normally used. BUT, one is being used for the TPS tip-in, and the other (on mine) for the O2 simulator.

Does this mean I'm SOL in utilizing this new feature?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck,

We can move the rear O2 cheat to the E-Cool PC-Pro or go back to that other module you had. It does need VCA. VCB is for TPS and it has to stay.

[cmetzner]

Tom, do I understand this correctly?

If I get the LC-1 and update the software on the PCPro, I can set the new Pro to the desired a/f numbers. Then would be no need to fine tune fueling maps?

Now, I have two extra injectors controlled by the SS controller. I set those to provide "too much" fuel. Then the new PC Pro would cut the stock injectors to get the a/f to the programmed setting.

Is this right? So, no one would have to map out fuel curves any more?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck,

That's the theory. I will better answers after I test it. I do believe there will be software adjustments I will have to do (PID) to make it match the Miata engiine. Time will tell.

[ThomS]

Another case of superior parts to go with superior service!!!!
:cheers2: :rockon:

DITTO ! ! I wish I knew what ytou guys were talking about.But time will help that as I am learning alot.

Thanks Tom. Again....

[chuckerants]

Thom,

This just means that you may not have to worry about whether you're too lean or too rich. The PC Pro will automatically adjust the fuel for you.

We'll let you know when to send the check to Tom. lol

[mageep]

...And I was just getting ready to buy the AEM wideband after my dyno day!

Looks like I might want to wait!

[bambam]

DITTO ! ! I wish I knew what ytou guys were talking about.But time will help that as I am learning alot.

Thanks Tom. Again....


Grow as you go like me. WE are in good hands with Tom, he cares about his product and his customers.

Buck

[Bill @ Fast Forward]

Tom, do I understand this correctly?

If I get the LC-1 and update the software on the PCPro, I can set the new Pro to the desired a/f numbers. Then would be no need to fine tune fueling maps?

Now, I have two extra injectors controlled by the SS controller. I set those to provide "too much" fuel. Then the new PC Pro would cut the stock injectors to get the a/f to the programmed setting.

Is this right? So, no one would have to map out fuel curves any more?

Chuck I would probably err on the extra injectors providing slightly too little fuel, this way the main injectors being controlled by the PC Pro can have the fuel added to maintain the right a/f ratio. If you add too much fuel with the extra injectors it is possible you would get in a situation, at certain load and rpm, where the main injectors at stock duty cycle (i.e. without the PC Pro extending them at all) will still have the a/f ratio too rich. It is my understanding that the PC Pro cannot reduce the duty cycle below stock? Do I have that right Tom?

Additionally, more of the fuel being added by the main injectors is probably a better option. You can go too far with how much fuel you inject with the extra injectors. Ideal would be to set the extra injectors so that the main injectors running in the middle setting on the PC Pro gives you near 12:1 a/f ratio. Then connect the feedback loop to keep it perfect all the time.

Bill

[cmetzner]

Good point, Bill, thanks.

I was concerned that I do not have enough stock fueling capacity for the boost I am running. So, the stock injectors would be running wide open and still not provide enough fuel.

My first thought was that I would not have to dyno the car with this new set up. But, after your comments, I guess I need to tune the extra injector so that it provides only the minimum amount of fuel to get to the target a/f.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The good news is that you could add some fuel as needed for hot days to cool the intake charge with the E-Cool and the main PC-Pro would automatically correct.

[cmetzner]

Tom, is there any timeline as to when the new software can be loaded into the PCPro?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Chuck,

I need to get the test unit in here and then get some real time on it and then look for a couple volunteers to test it after I get it running. That all has to happen before it is ready for prime time. I would guess at least a month away.

[bambam]

Chuck,

I need to get the test unit in here and then get some real time on it and then look for a couple volunteers to test it after I get it running. That all has to happen before it is ready for prime time. I would guess at least a month away.


For the sake of the good, and your customers Tom. I volunteer sir. Just call me with all the details

Sr. Elbucko :driving:

PS: what exactly am I volunteering for ?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Pick up the LC-1 and you can volunteer to test the PC-Pro software when it is ready.

[mageep]

I might have to throw my name into the mess as well!

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We are installing it right now. :-)

[99mx5]

Im up for it too, I have a LM-1

[SPOOM]

Update. It uses the same PC-Pro as I have been sending. Just a software update. I will have one next week and install and test is as soon as I have any time (January? :)). After that, I will update software as needed for anyone with my PC-Pro for free. You will then need an LC-1. The simple version is plenty, so I am told.

Sooooooooooo, the old PC-Pros are NOT obsolete.

Let me make absolutely sure that I understand you correctly. If I were to buy a PC Pro from you prior to the sale of this new version, I can send the earlier model of PC Pro back to you for the software update at no charge (except shipping, perhaps.) Then all I'll need to do is somehow hook it up to the LC-1 wideband and I'm good to go. Is this correct?

Just out of curiosity, how long before the new version hits the streets? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You are 100% correct. If/when we get the closed loop tested and perfected, it will simply require wiring the brown wire from the LC-1 to one of the currently unused wires on the PC-Pro and a re-flash of the software. I will gladly do the re-flash for free and even pay the return postage/UPS.

As of Saturday, I have the LC-1 mounted, wired and operational in my 99. The brown wire is right next to the one it needs to connect to. :) All I need is 28 hour days and I am off and running (already consuming 24 hours a day). Seriously, I took a side trip and did the testing on the new timing card (works great, by the way and we should have it up for sale soon.) and need another couple days to wrap it up. I needed to get it out of the way first. I have the new closed loop software and all I need is a day to do the program and a couple days to do the testing (famous last words?). We will be closing for summer vacation from June 9 to June 23 and will be driving the 99 to Cleveland so I intend to have it totally operational by then for the 4000 mile long term test with significant altitude and temperature changes.

Let me make absolutely sure that I understand you correctly. If I were to buy a PC Pro from you prior to the sale of this new version, I can send the earlier model of PC Pro back to you for the software update at no charge (except shipping, perhaps.) Then all I'll need to do is somehow hook it up to the LC-1 wideband and I'm good to go. Is this correct?

Just out of curiosity, how long before the new version hits the streets? Thanks in advance for your help.

[Scuba Steve]

... If I were to buy a PC Pro from you prior to the sale of this new version, I can send the earlier model of PC Pro back to you for the software update at no charge (except shipping, perhaps.) ....

while this would be nice, I am not assuming the upgrade will be free. I would be thrilled to get the upgrade (at a fair price) for existing systems.


Edit -
OK Tom - You beat my post by seconds. Now I want it for free :cheers2:

[Wayne-n-Fla]

You'll have my "stuff" from Chris pretty soon, and I've got a Gap trip in June to see if S/O is a keeper so if you need anything help yourself, and I can wait till you get back.

[jwalton]

Seriously, I took a side trip and did the testing on the new timing card (works great, by the way and we should have it up for sale soon.)

I searched the forum and found nothing about a timing card... What is this fabled timing card that you so blithely mentioned in this thread? Am I going to be able to adjust my timing?

Inquiring minds... (you get it.)

[Serpico]

I think the new timing card/software will only be able to retard the timing. It will not advance timing as far as I understand.

It's a very good thing and seeing that it's free makes it even better... :)



Tom, guess you had better stock up on 120's, 126's & 130mm pulleys.... ;)

http://www.powercardtuning.com/forum/forums/thread/69.aspx

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Hey, wait a minute. I never said the timing card was free. :) I said the update to the closed loop for fuel control would be free. The timing card will be ~$300 and do timing retard. It can be programmed to pull degrees/pound of boost or simply pull degrees in the three zones. 0-3000, 3000-5000 and 5000-7500. I am just testing it in the 05 and, so far, it allows me to run some pretty poor gas in the 05 which is near miraculous. Now I need to see if dropping timing a few degrees will allow me to run the bigger pulleys in the 05?

I may have a "Get started" sale and reduce the price for the opening but it will standard list price will be $295. It has 6 wires to attach. You cut the trigger wires to the two coils and connect two of the TC wires to each of the ends and then connect to 12VDC and GND. It will connect easily into the PC-Pro harness. It has the same three buttons as the PC-Pro and is just as easy to adjust on the fly. Running out east on 94 octane, bump it down a few degrees. Driving to Arizona in the heat of summer and all you can find is 91 with Ethanol, bump the retard up a few degrees and run safely with the same larger pulleys.

Give me a couple weeks and we will have better data. Maybe a 4th of July 20% off sale on the timing cards?

[Serpico]

heh..heh...heh

can't blame a guy for trying..... :)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sure, you were willing to pay a "reasonable price" for the software flash but expected the whole new timing card for free. I see how this works. ;)

I may give a timing card away as a door prize Sunday at the house. Now, off to test some more.

[Wayne-n-Fla]

[QUOTE=Tom @ Fast Forward;8025

I may give a timing card away as a door prize Sunday at the house. Now, off to test some more.[/QUOTE]
I'll be there in "sprit" if that counts ???

[bogey]

I will be there in July - put my name in the drawing!

[Mark]

I may give a timing card away as a door prize Sunday at the house.

Crap. I read this now on Sunday morning. And it's a 27 hour drive. :-(

[Wayne-n-Fla]

So which one of these is needed, ? the one with the computer hook-up or the ones with the blue or red gauges.
Inquireing minds just want to know



http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/xcart/home.php

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

This one:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Innovate-Motorsports-LC-1-Wideband-o2-Lambda-Cable-UEGO_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33596QQihZ001QQite mZ110134465290QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW

Then you can buy whicever gauge you want to go with it. Gauges soild seperately. Remember, I have not tested this system as yet.

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Did you test this on your trip ?? comments ??

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

My wife is "forcing" me to vacation so far. ;-) I will try to get to it tomorrow. I want to get on it really bad but this ^^&%^ vacation got in the way. ;)

[Bo0osted]

Enjoy your vacation (for your wife's sake!)

[down_hill_dog]

so Tom, I realize this is an old thread now.... But let me get this straight

The current generation of Powercards are all coming direct from you with the Plug n Play harness, and ability to work with the Innovate LC-1 wideband AFR guages? I'm not so much interested in the Timing Card you speak about, but I would like to order a PCPro within the next week.

Granted that you have them on hand that is. Car is an 01, for reference.

[down_hill_dog]

and being that you have been working with the Innovate LC-1's integrated with the PCpro for a while now, are you by chance stocking the Innovate units aswell? I'd like to one stop shop if you know what I mean.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

We never did get the Innovate connected and operational. Sorry. Hopefully one of these days they will get it all worked out.

Cards are in stock but not to function with the LC-1.

[Tink]

Does this mean the Innovative Wide Band I have won't work? Or just won't work with the PC Pro?

The Innovate site said the new O2 sensor has output for the narrow band for the ECU; thought it was a relatively straight forward hook up?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Tink, the Innovate will work just fine. What this thread started at was that the innovate was supposed to connect to the PC-Pro and do closed loop control. We tried and it didn't cut the grade. That would have allowed for setting the A/F by setting a desired A/F ratio like 12:1 and it would simply do that. Great idea but the PC-Pro ran out of steam to do it.

The innovate will still work just fine as it was intended and the PC-Pro works just fine as it is intended. It is just that the two wont communicate and close loop. No big deal. It was just one of those things that would have been a really cool addition had it worked.

[Tink]

Should have read the thread before posting a question,

Thanks, Tom