Woohoo! New motor ordered FINALLY!!

[socal pat]

Ok guys, it's not too late to change things. If I missed something obvious let me know please. The specs are....
block prep (bake, blast, magnaflux, deck...)
balance motor
Competition valve job with +1mm SS nitrite coated valves w/ bronze guides
JE pistons 9:1 cr
bearings
new oil pump
standard timing stuff (belt, idler, etc)
water pump
Arp hardware

Peripheral stuff,
Tom's dual feed rail
Rising rate FPR (BEGI)
280 injectors
EGT gauge
Tom's timing card (ASAP TOM!!! :drool5: )
all new hoses and belts

So this ought to keep my wife unhappy for a good while :sweatdrop:
Did I miss anything?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Why the new rising rat fuel pump?

The rest looks good. I hope you have better luck with the JE forged pistons than I did with the Wisecos.

[socal pat]

It is just the regulator not the pump. Since my car is out of comission :frown: I've had a bunch of time on my hands. I have been talking to folks who have blown motors in similar cicumstances to mine (8-12lbs boost, 200-210 hp.) And Fuel Pressure Regulators are suspect in high RPM lean conditions. More than I thought. We know that stock injectors + a 440 E-cool are easily able to provide enough fuel for 210+ WHP, but that is ONLY if the fuel pressure is right ALL the way through the RPM range. I don't have datalogs on my failure, but I'm not going to let a bad FPR be the source of any problems. And if I'm going to replace mine, why not do it with a better one?
Oh, and RE: the pistons. My motor guy assures me that the metalurgy of these pistons along with the PROPER sizing of the rings will not burn oil. We'll seeeeee...

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Sorry, I meant FPR. I was just curious why a rising rate version?

[BlownMX5]

Oh, and RE: the pistons. My motor guy assures me that the metalurgy of these pistons along with the PROPER sizing of the rings will not burn oil. We'll seeeeee...

Pat, I have JE 9:1s in my '94 as well and I don't notice any oil burning issues. My engine builder talked me out of Wisecos.

The other socal Pat :biggrin:

[jportwood]

what fuel psi do you want to see at those boost levels

[socal pat]

what fuel psi do you want to see at those boost levels

That would depend on what I'm seeing on the Dyno. I'd like the ability to run around 100 psi. at 12-14 lbs of boost. I think that ~80 will do what I would like though. The idea is to improve spray pattern along with increased flow at a shorter pulse width. If I can just run a 120mm pulley safely I'd be happy :angel: ...... really. :devil:

[chuckerants]

I'm still running a 115mm during 115F days (without running AC though) without any pinging. I'll probably go up to a 120mm after the summer.

[socal pat]

I'm thinking your water injection has something to do with that. On a 115 with enough Toluene to equal 94.2 octane I was pinging up top. It may have been timing, or my FPR getting weak. My AEM was reading 11.5. Oh well, with ALL the weak links replaced I should be able to run a 115 easily.

[chuckerants]

I'm thinking your water injection has something to do with that. On a 115 with enough Toluene to equal 94.2 octane I was pinging up top. It may have been timing, or my FPR getting weak. My AEM was reading 11.5. Oh well, with ALL the weak links replaced I should be able to run a 115 easily.

I thought the same thing, but now that I added an on/off switch inside the car for the WI, I don't think WI has as much to do with it as I thought. The most important thing for me though is the peace of mind the WI provides me.

120mm here I come!

[Wayne-n-Fla]

I didn't see a cooling reroute in your list ??

[socal pat]

I thought about the re-route long and hard. Did a bunch of searching on Mnet. The thing is my autopsy showed no signs of uneven cooling. My #4 looked no different from #2. So that along with the fact that there was no "correct" way to do the re-route I decided not to plan on it. I may change my mind once the motor is back in my garage on the hoist.

[socal pat]

Pat, I have JE 9:1s in my '94 as well and I don't notice any oil burning issues. My engine builder talked me out of Wisecos.

The other socal Pat :biggrin:

Hey Pat, speaking of engine builders... Does Millennium Motorsports ring a bell?
I was talking with Greg today about coolant re-routes and he said some guy also named Pat with a hotside SC had one. Is that you?

[BlownMX5]

Yes. They did a great job on the reroute. There were other aspects of the rebuild that I was... umm... less than pleased with. But hey, it runs!

Pat.

[socal pat]

You have a PM

[cmetzner]

Pat -

Did you ever check the fuel pressure before the motor blew?

I checked mine a couple of times. I do not remember the exact numbers but it was within spec for my year car - '99.

With my car, I cannot avoid ping without pulling an additional 6* of timing at WOT. That is over the 4* max that the stock knock sensor pulls if it hears knock. So, I just live with it.

Even though I have checked the fuel pressure, I have never checked the a/f ratio. I am going to have the dynoed next week though.

[socal pat]

No Chuck I have not checked mine. Funny, I could be low on fuel pressure, but haven't tested, and your ping could be fuel ratio (untested). The blind leading the blind :biggrin: As Tom has stated before. These systems run just great IF everything is as it should be. Not long ago you would NEVER find a 200 whp miata running without a traditional intercooler along with a timing device. We are kind of on the edge. It does work, but our cars have to be running perfectly to do it without incident. That's part of the fun. I may be replacing good parts in this buildup, but there will be NO, zero, zip, nada, chance that my car's components will be to blame if I have any issues. I haven't seen any indication that my FFS kit isn't doing its job, so I'm betting all will be well. Especially when I get a timing card in :drool5:

No two cars are the same, and what works on one may not be perfect for another. So Chuck, either buy a wideband or get your but to a dyno and get those AFR numbers!!! You don't want to end up like me do you? Well, shopping for new motor components is kinda fun. ;)

[chuckerants]

Pat -

Did you ever check the fuel pressure before the motor blew?

I checked mine a couple of times. I do not remember the exact numbers but it was within spec for my year car - '99.

With my car, I cannot avoid ping without pulling an additional 6* of timing at WOT. That is over the 4* max that the stock knock sensor pulls if it hears knock. So, I just live with it.

Even though I have checked the fuel pressure, I have never checked the a/f ratio. I am going to have the dynoed next week though.

Chuck, that's so odd. I've been driving around lately in 115F heat without any hint of pinging. The only difference between your car and mine is that I'm adding just a touch of Torco.

We both have the same pulleys, Aquamist, and I know you have a 5th injector, but you have a timing retard device whereas I don't. Hmm.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Knock sensors are a real help but I believe they are ignored above 6000 RPM. I think I read that on mnet so it must be true. I believe it can't differentiate between knock aqnd engine noise above 6000. That's why you hear people talk about "it only pings above 6000", I believe.


Pat -

Did you ever check the fuel pressure before the motor blew?

I checked mine a couple of times. I do not remember the exact numbers but it was within spec for my year car - '99.

With my car, I cannot avoid ping without pulling an additional 6* of timing at WOT. That is over the 4* max that the stock knock sensor pulls if it hears knock. So, I just live with it.

Even though I have checked the fuel pressure, I have never checked the a/f ratio. I am going to have the dynoed next week though.

[cmetzner]

Chuck,

I also add some Torco to each tank. So our cars are very similar. Mine's blue, I think yours was silver.

[Gord96BRG]

These systems run just great IF everything is as it should be. Not long ago you would NEVER find a 200 whp miata running without a traditional intercooler along with a timing device. We are kind of on the edge. It does work, but our cars have to be running perfectly to do it without incident.

Pat, I know it's not on your list, but did you consider going to a standalone ECU instead of RRFPR, timing card, etc.? I'm running a Link on my 96, and am extremely happy with the full control I've got over fuel and timing in every zone, along with a knock sensor that reads to redline and a closed loop wideband O2 doing real time corrections. Full data logging available, etc.

On your 00, you could consider the Hydra, which offers even more resolution (greater number of cells in the fuel vs. rpm and timing vs. rpm). I think the piggyback solutions are working well for the standard FFS installs, but when you're pushing the limits with bigger pulleys, then there are some advantages to the extra control offered by a standalone.

[socal pat]

You're killing me Gord!! I just did a price list on all my additional stuff (hoses, belts, flywheel surfacing etc.) and I'm getting in pretty deep. I will be forgoing the RRFPR and just getting a fresh OEM instead. I will have to live with a 115 pulley and 205-210 whp for now. I also have the CARB thing to consider. It is possible that in the future I could go with a removeable standalone. In the meantime I will have to leave the pioneering to richer and less busy guys than I. ;)

[socal pat]

I'm getting antsy! Just went by the shop on the way home last night. Those JE pistons sure do look purdy! All the pieces were laid out so I could confirm they were there before the install. Head has been machined and will be assembled today. I'll be stopping by tonight with a can of engine paint- blue to match my NGK plug wires and brake calipers. Hmmmm maybe I could paint the FFS intake manifold too........

[socal pat]

Yay!! Motor is back home in my garage and hanging from the hoist. Just waiting for a new oilpan (mine was spiderwebbed from an impact), the injectors (Arizona TPI was fantastic to deal with), FM motormounts etc.. It's all been orered$$$$$ and will be here soon. With any luck It'll be back in the car in time for the open house at Emillio's 949 Racing on Aug. 11.