Difference between yellow-blue and red-blue?

[Bo0osted]

Hi guys,

What's the difference between the yellow-blue and the red-blue setting on the PC-Pro? On the instructions, it states that you should just set the red-blue to whatever the yellow-blue is set at. Just curious what the difference is.

Thanks!

[99mx5]

Yellow/Blue and Red/blue are used to raise, lower and tilt the fuel curve.
Yellow/Blue is the low end and Red/Blue is the high end.
To raise or lower the curve, both Y/B and R/B should be set to the same value. If you want to raise or lower end of the curve, you use Y/B for the low end and R/B for the high end.

[MiataMTF]

Not Quite - as Tom explained it to me, the y/b is the scale factor and r/b is the slope. So, the y/b raises the curve across the board (you can do the same by raising the individual g/y/r each by the same value) and the r/b tilts the curve (in each range, respectively).

Tom should address this one.

[99mx5]

Ah, I'm glad to get that clarified. I have yet to tweak those two. Sorry about that.

[Bo0osted]

Figured I'd give this a bump so Tom can clarify. :D

[tann3r]

Another bump. Curious minds want to know.

[Mx5-4me]

Tom Where Are You














Hehe !

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Wow. A thread I missed completely? Not sure how that happened.

Basically, the yellow/blue raises/lowers the fuel across the whole band. The Red/blue tilts the bottom end of the bottom end of the curve. You cna adjust them independently as needed. I found that it worked best if you kept them together but I'm sure there are exceptions.

Being on the road from the 7th through the 13th, I only had my PDA. It doesn't seem to catch all the new threads. Please do me a favor in the future. If there is a thread that needs my attention and I appear to be absent from it, please send me an email and let me know.

[Dr Evol]

Tom can you explain "tilt the bottom end of the bottom end of the curve"?

Does it richen or lean out the bottom end. What rpms and pounds of boost make up the bottom end?

Can you be more pacific?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, I tried to keep it simple. :)

It doesn't really tilt the bottom end but here are the extremes. What's missing is the "Load" factor. The charts are in the order of YB1 RB1, YB1 RB4, YB1 RB8, YB4 RB1, YB4 RB4, YB4 RB8, YB8 RB1, YB8 RB4, YB8 RB8. What isn't shown is the addition of the 5th injector. Hope this helps.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Y-B-and-R-B-Charts.jpg

[MiataMTF]

Tom, if I read the diagrams correctly, this PC-Pro maxes out at 12-psi?

[Kyp J]

Tom, if I read the diagrams correctly, this PC-Pro maxes out at 12-psi?

That is the only thing I can figure out from the diagrams and that is only because of the hint. Since my A/F seems to be in the ballpark I won't try to understand it.

[tann3r]

From looking at the graphs (PW vs. Boost), it seems that the yellow/blue changes the angle of the line below 12 psi. for boost less than 12 psi, increasing yellow/blue adds more fuel per psi.

the red/blue changes the shaded blue area under the line. increasing red/blue decreases the shaded portion. what does the shaded blue area represent? load?

I cant really decipher much from the PW vs. RPM graphs, they all look the same.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The graphs are a little confusing without more info, but what I can decipher is this... Based on the graphs on the left we see how the injector pulse width (Y-axis) changes with boost psi (X-axis). On older devices, like the original Powercard, I believe this would be a simple sloped line. In other words, as boost goes up, the injector ms goes up accordingly. However, with the PC Pro, it looks like there is a range. You basically have upper and lower injector ms lines with a range in between. The Y-B adjusts the upper bound and the R-B adjusts the lower bound. What does the range represent.... that I am not sure, but I am guessing it is that third parameter Tom mentioned called "load". So what I am gathering here is the R-B adjusts how sensitive the PC-Pro reacts to changing load.... even when the boost psi is the same. For example, look at the first two graphs. When YB=1 and RB=1, you can see the range between the upper and lower bounds is fairly fat. When the boost is at 5psi, you can see the injector pulse is at 2ms if it is at max load. Then the boost say goes up to 12psi and you can see the injectors pulse is at around 5ms... also at max load. However, lets suppose at the same 12psi the load is decreased? One can interpret from this graph that it would allow it to go as low as 1.5ms at the same 12psi of boost at minimum load (whatever minimum minimum load is?). Next, on the second graph down, the YB still is 1 but RB is increased to 4. Here you can see the range is narrower. At "max load" the injector ms is identical to the previous graph. However, at that 12psi for example, instead of having a minimum injector ms of 1.5ms at minimum load, one sees that it is now 2.5ms. So, increasing the RB is increasing the lower bound without affecting the upper bound at all. Further down you can see another interesting thing, where increasing the YB setting raises the upper bound and it also appears to adjust the lower bound so that it is always the same percentage relative to the upper bound. For example, with the RB set at 4, it appears that this means the lower bound about 50% of the upper bound.

The second graph which shows injector ms vs rpm, I am not sure how it relates. Perhaps it is a correction made based on rpm? However, it seems to slope really strongly. For example at 7500rpm it is 0, yet at ~5000 it is already off the chart past 20.

Bill

[FormerDatsun510Man]

BTW, thanks for sharing the graphs Tom :).

Bill

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The particular one I used for the example is from the 01-05 stock Coldside. They are typically 10 PSI max. Some get up to 11. The max is set to 12 for them. If I generated a similar set of curves for an M45 setup, it would max even earlier as I set them to 8 PSI. If I did the one for MY 99 :) it would max at 20PSI as it is getting the 130mm pulley back on today with the timing card.
:party:

Tom, if I read the diagrams correctly, this PC-Pro maxes out at 12-psi?

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

You are welcome.

What is hard to represent on the curves is engine load as I don't have a way to actually simulate all the different variables. I tried to explain on that other website one day the difference between going uphill at 2000 RPM and 5PSI and going downhill at 2000RPM and 5PSI. Anyhow, the key is rate of acceleration. If you put your foot down starting at 2000 RPM and 5PSI going uphill and, maintaining 5PSI, check your rate of acceleration. Then turn around at the top of the hill and head back down the same slope and, at 2000 RPM and 5PSI, put your foot in it and maintain 5PSI and measure your rate of acceleration, you "SHOULD" note a difference. :) If not, you should probably check your brakes as they are probably stuck on.

On any other engine management that is table based, you will typically get a significant difference in A/F if testing in different gears. If the PC-Pro is set up well, you will see only a slight difference in the different gears as it corrects for the load difference associated with gear changes.

BTW, thanks for sharing the graphs Tom :).

Bill

[FormerDatsun510Man]

The particular one I used for the example is from the 01-05 stock Coldside. They are typically 10 PSI max. Some get up to 11. The max is set to 12 for them. If I generated a similar set of curves for an M45 setup, it would max even earlier as I set them to 8 PSI. If I did the one for MY 99 :) it would max at 20PSI as it is getting the 130mm pulley back on today with the timing card.
:party:

Wait a minute!! There is another 130 pulley in town??!?! :boxing_smiley:

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I was going to do a 150 but figured 20 PSI was enough. :)

[jwalton]

I was going to do a 150 but figured 20 PSI was enough. :)

Wimp.

I mean come on... If you're gonna grab up one of the first timing cards (I guess that you do have the perogative bein' our hp "pusher" after all), the least you could do is run the 150 just to see what happens. ;)

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Well, wih the 130, I had 10-12PSI off idle, 15PSI by 3500 and no idea after that as my gauge only goes to 15. I think it is still a good astarting place to test the timing card. :)

BTW, I did do a leak down and compression check and, after 131,000 miles (200WHP+ hotside from 30K to 70K and Coldside at 210+ since 70K) it is still strong. 5th injector can't be all bad.

[elerner]

Well, I tried to keep it simple. :)

It doesn't really tilt the bottom end but here are the extremes. What's missing is the "Load" factor. The charts are in the order of YB1 RB1, YB1 RB4, YB1 RB8, YB4 RB1, YB4 RB4, YB4 RB8, YB8 RB1, YB8 RB4, YB8 RB8. What isn't shown is the addition of the 5th injector. Hope this helps.

http://www.FastForwardSuperchargers.com/Y-B-and-R-B-Charts.jpg

Well, I installed a Goodwin mid-pipe a number of months ago but never retuned. That, and my initial tune got me 90% of the way (a little on the rich side). So I'm gonna go back in and retune.

In the thread above, there are some charts referred to. I can't find them and I'd like to reference them.

Thanks!

[elerner]

Bump. Show me the graphs! :)

[elektron]

You are still talking about y/b and r/b setting (he y/b is the scale factor and r/b is the slope) but I have got green/blue , orange/blue and red/blue settings.For what is it??? On the other card for 5th inj. - green/blue - thats for fuel across the board.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Your extra G/B on the main card is for Accelerator Pump. It adds a little squirt of fuel as you press the pedal just like the old carburators. Default setting should be fine but "+" adds more squirt and "-" makes less squirt.

[Rudolf]

Bump. Show me the graphs! :)
Me too :excl:
I am trying to understand this, but the graphs are missing !
Does anybody know where I can get less confusing info about g,y,r,g/b,y/b and r/b settings ?
We really need some graphs here.
Thanks

Erik

[tann3r]

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1687

that may help

[Rudolf]

http://www.fastforwardsuperchargers.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1687

that may help
Not really ....
For you lucky ones (who have seen the graphs) it may be easy.
But, based on the info i can find on this forum, it is not.
I have read the info on the Moss-site, but some keep telling that FFS programming is different.
I have searched quite a lot, but I am not able to find any info on the different tuning parameters, that I can understand.
A confusing part is also different generations of the SW.
I dont understand the y/b and r/b settings.
What does it do (compared to the g,y,r and g/b)?
Please show me a graph.

Erik

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

The software in the Moss card is TOTALLY different from the FFS files. Actually, it is even a different hardware version. You will note that they have 8 wires and we have 16.

Basically, and Bill can tell you way better, is that the Y/B sets the slope of the RPM/Boost/Load curve and Red/Blue changes the "weighting" of the Load vs. RPM.

Just to give you a taste, this is the main screen. Under each "tab" is more things to modify. Under the first tab (shown) is probably 20 functions. It is really a very complex card. The ECool and TC cards are equally complex.

[Rudolf]

The software in the Moss card is TOTALLY different from the FFS files. Actually, it is even a different hardware version. You will note that they have 8 wires and we have 16.

Basically, and Bill can tell you way better, is that the Y/B sets the slope of the RPM/Boost/Load curve and Red/Blue changes the "weighting" of the Load vs. RPM.

Just to give you a taste, this is the main screen. Under each "tab" is more things to modify. Under the first tab (shown) is probably 20 functions. It is really a very complex card. The ECool and TC cards are equally complex.
Thank you Tom.
Is the picture of the main screen the same as the graph you were discussing earlier in this thread ?
Some of us would like to see the original graphs.
They are missing in the thread (not there anymore)

Erik

[Rudolf]

Maybe there are some misunderstanding here:
In post #10 (back in 2007) Tom posted some diagram/graphs.
Those diagrams are not there anymore.
We cant read them, because they are not there.
It would be (maybe) helpfull if you could post those diagrams once more.
Thanks

Erik

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Erik, Not sure how it got dropped BUT, it is pretty out of date. I put it back but, hopefully, Bill will post a current one as is in use today. We are in a new way of thinking since we got new blood. Of course, what I did with the kit was historic (In the spirit of the Season "Yes, Virginia, ECool DOES work.":)) BUT, what Bill is doing with the kit is absolutely phenominal. Good thing he is in charge of FFS and I am relegated to making yoyos again. ;) You have no idea what he has in store for the New Year. Sadly, he leaves Wednesday for three weeks. Of course, it IS a paid vacation. I pay him the same while he is gone as I did while he is here. You can still haunt him while he is gone as he IS taking his phone. Even if he tries to leave it behind, I know where to send it. LOL

[Rudolf]

Very good Tom.
Combined with Bills post (#14), it makes sense.
I understand a bit more now :yes:
I will NOT haunt Bill while he enjoy his deserved Holliday.
Thank you for your help.

Erik