It's alive!

[snakebit]

Just drove home after having the coldside installed in my 99. No knock that I can tell, idles great, 7 lbs max boost w/ 105mm pulley.

I was highly anxious before the 1st turn of the key because I did most of the vacuum connections and wiring.:sweatdrop: ( I do not have a good history with automotive wiring.) But I didn't even need to touch the idle stop screw. No smoke from under the dash, everything works!

Butt dyno says it's not as fast as my 300+hp, 5.0-powered Volvo wagon, but it definitely feels stronger than before. Will get to a real dyno next week to see how much more can be tweaked out of it.

Many thanks to Tom for his amazingly efficient and friendly help all along the way!

I'm a little disappointed that I can't hear any SC whistling, at least not with the top and windows up. I guess using the stock air box is keeping it pretty quiet.

Will post pics and dyno graph soon.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Make sure your gauge has tight fittings. I would have expected 10-11 PSI, not 7.

Coldsides are fun. ;)

[snakebit]

Make sure your gauge has tight fittings. I would have expected 10-11 PSI, not 7.

Coldsides are fun. ;)Hmm, there is one junction that has no clamp or zip tie (besides the ones at the PC Pro cards); I will see if I can secure it better. I can also remove the gauge line at the T, plug it and see if it makes any difference. Would a slight leak at the gauge be enough to reduce the actual boost from 11 to 7, or just the gauge reading?

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Congrats on the install, turn key,ect. just for grins if the trouble shooting of hoses dosen't produce anything new, try hooking the cone filter up to the origional C/S hose, the way you describe your intake set up it sounds like a "cold air " box, but you might be restricted on your intake air flow, and keep the ECM on, fla. traffic gestapo are sneaky

[99mx5]

Yes! ALL vacuum/boost leaks are bad. For example, if theres a boost leak at the gauge near the PC Pros, then the PC Pros will see less than the actual boost and not deliver enough fuel (IOW incorrect amount of fuel for the boost level).

Look over all the hose connections at the VDB and the vacuum hose at the TB and from the PVC valve to the manifold vacuum block. I put zip ties on all the vacuum hoses. Another thing to check are the fittings for the SS tube on the EGR bracket and manifold vacuum block.

[snakebit]

Thanks for the tips. The one vac/boost connection I suspected was a culprit; it was the rubber fitting right at the boost gauge. I double zip-tied it and now I'm seeing 9 lbs. boost.

Is 9 lbs. still too low? The car is now unquestionably FAST!

I will go over all the other connections mentioned and use a pressure/vac gauge to sniff out any more leaks.

Did I say the car is FAAAAAST?!:taz: It's not as linear as my V8 Volvo, more like a slingshot. 5k to 7k happens in a blink! I unintentionally bounced off the rev limiter a few times.

My Knocklite is currently set at sensitivity 4 out of 10 (1 is most sensitive) and registers small bumps in the road but no knock while accelerating hard. It's reading off a Bosch knock sensor mounted on the passenger side engine mount. It will give me brief knock warnings near redline at setting 3. Hopefully the dyno guys will have a stethescope or other reliable way to measure the slightest knock so I can calibrate the Knocklite precisely.

Say, how are you guys keeping the PC Pro cards secure yet accessible? Velcro?

[Wayne-n-Fla]

Glad you found the missing boost, pictures of your intake when you can

[snakebit]

The coldside. I kinda like the black ribbed "theme" from the SC case to the long intake hose: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1061.jpg?t=1191134675

Clip to keep the hose away from the SC belt: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1069.jpg?t=1191134776

The cool air intake. The foam sits atop sheet metal plates which, along with the existing relay mount, seal the area around the driver's side headlight and draws air from the holes to the fender. On hindsight, I could have as easily made a similar intake on the passenger side using the cone filter and had a much shorter hose with less heat soak. Maybe I will do that someday, but Tom was of the opinion that the hose length would have a negligible effect on flow: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1062.jpg?t=1191134862

New gauges (boost and oil temp.), Knocklite and Scangauge. The priority was easy viewing while driving. The instrument hood was ideal for mounting the two gauge pods as there is plenty of space under there for the wires and vac line. I bought a pillar mount from FM but returned it after seeing how it obscured my left corner, (I have enough trouble nailing the apex w/out that handicap). Scangauge sits on velcro for quick removability: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1064.jpg?t=1191134921

[jikemenkins]

Could you describe in detail how you mounted those on the left and right of the main gauge hood? i realy like that and want to duplicate it someday

[cmetzner]

Snakebit -

Re your Knocklite. Did you tie into the stock knock sensor? I have a 99 but don't remember what year yours is but the 99 has a knock sensor.

Also, on my car, I have an unused area on the stock gauge pod that might be able to house the knocklite. The unused spot is to the right of the speedo and above the temp gauge. I don't know what this warning light is for but on my car there is nothing behind there. I wonder if one could strip down the Knocklite and somehow mount the Knocklite led in there.

[snakebit]

Could you describe in detail how you mounted those on the left and right of the main gauge hood? i realy like that and want to duplicate it somedayI used these universal pods: http://www.egauges.com/vdo_acce.asp?Subgroup=Campro_Cup&Manf=All. I ground down the small mount (#1 in the pic) until it was flush with the base of the pod, so the pods don't swivel up and down but they still rotate. The wires and vac line from the Autometer Sport Comp II gauges were wrapped with black tape and go through their own small holes drilled into the hood; this looked better without grommets, IMO. The gauges were a tight fit in the pods, esp. the vac. line fitting. In the interest of appearance, I foregoed the brass compression fittings which would have required a large cutout in the back of the pod and just used the soft rubber bootie and zip ties.

I zip tied the wires and vac line together and ran them through some loom down under the dash. They are also secured by another zip tie fastened to the underside of the hood via a tiny hole drilled into a plastic rib. Extra length is looped around so the hood can be pulled off easily without tugging on anything.

[snakebit]

Re your Knocklite. Did you tie into the stock knock sensor? I have a 99 but don't remember what year yours is but the 99 has a knock sensor.I got a Bosch sensor and the FM motor mount adapter: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=&parentid=&stocknumber=07-36901#. Tom thought this was a better location for the knock sensor because it picks up less extraneous noise. Also, there have been reports of the tiny voltage output of the stock sensor being too small to be split into two signals.

Also, on my car, I have an unused area on the stock gauge pod that might be able to house the knocklite. The unused spot is to the right of the speedo and above the temp gauge. I don't know what this warning light is for but on my car there is nothing behind there. I wonder if one could strip down the Knocklite and somehow mount the Knocklite led in there.I see what you mean. My Momo steering wheel rim blocks that from my sightline, as it does the turn signal blinkers. Maybe I'll paint the Knocklite black so it's a little less visible to potential thieves/vandals.

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Snakebit, I just wanted to say that your intake setup is very ingenious!! If I had a Coldside I would probably copy your setup :). With the stock airbox it probably has quieted it down quite a bit? How does it sound? And how about SOTP performance? Has it dampened any of the performance from when it ran the standard intake setup for this kit?

Bill

[snakebit]

Snakebit, I just wanted to say that your intake setup is very ingenious!! If I had a Coldside I would probably copy your setup :). With the stock airbox it probably has quieted it down quite a bit? How does it sound? And how about SOTP performance? Has it dampened any of the performance from when it ran the standard intake setup for this kit?

BillAw shucks!:blush5: It IS quiet, pretty much as quiet as before the blower went in, at least from inside the car. I never had the short hose and cone filter setup, so I have no basis for comparison there.
What is "SOTP"?:stupid:
I'm still wondering why I'm getting *only* 9 psi max boost instead of the 10-11 that Tom expected, and I suspect my cat may be to blame. I almost killed my cat by running a blinking CEL for a couple minutes when my coil pack gave up, but the PO420 went away by itself. However, Tom seems to think that a cat with 50k mi. is going to be marginal anyways.
Now that I think about it, wouldn't exhaust system restriction result in inflated boost readings (but without commensurate hp)?:confused:

[Wayne-n-Fla]

SOTP == Seat Of The Pants, Buttdyno , easiest is to get on a dyno, and drop midpipe/cat for a run and see what the difference is, bring hearing protection
I would have thought you would still hear the S/C whine reguardless of the intake lcation , well except for a cowl location

[FormerDatsun510Man]

Yes, a clogged CAT, or any flow restriction downstream of the intake manifold will cause the boost to be higher and the power to be lower.

I would tend to think that lower than expected boost readings would be caused by one of two things, assuming you have the kit installed properly (i.e. no vacuum leaks and no slipping belts). Either the intake is restricting the blower, which I sort of doubt, or simply the gauge you are running is a little bit inaccurate. For example, I have just installed a mechanical boost gauge (Sunpro) on my setup. It is reading 2psi lower at peak boost than any of my other gauges have read in the past.

Bill

[snakebit]

Yes, a clogged CAT, or any flow restriction downstream of the intake manifold will cause the boost to be higher and the power to be lower.

I would tend to think that lower than expected boost readings would be caused by one of two things, assuming you have the kit installed properly (i.e. no vacuum leaks and no slipping belts). Either the intake is restricting the blower, which I sort of doubt, or simply the gauge you are running is a little bit inaccurate. For example, I have just installed a mechanical boost gauge (Sunpro) on my setup. It is reading 2psi lower at peak boost than any of my other gauges have read in the past.

BillThanks, that makes sense. Dyno will hopefully confirm that power is good despite 9 psi. Seems to be no reason to mess with the cat. I have some leftover intake tube so I can make a short-tube intake and compare it. And I still need to pressure test the vac/boost lines.
Maybe the dyno tester can tee into my boost line and we can see what his gauge reads.
Pretty sure the belt's not slipping, it's snug and straight and the power/torque curve feels consistent and strongest near redline. Again, dyno will tell.

[jwalton]

I'd be willing to bet that the stock intake is what's killing your boost numbers. Air likes to be pushed and hates to be pulled. Pulling air through the stock box, which actually has a rather small openning (if it's like mine was with the small trumpet like section pointing down towards the hole in the fender), and through the long piping with the bends and ribs creates havoc with the quality of the flow. I think that you'd be pretty surprised to see just how little effective flow area you have by the time the boundary layer and distortion effects are taken into account.

All that being said, I'm not trying to rain on your parade or be negative. I think that it's pretty cool that you were able to retain your stock intake box for that stealth appearance and sound. I'm just trying to explain the loss in boost.

To spread the love to my own install, I have a hotside with the BTB and larger hose turning 180* up towards the front corner with a K&N in a cold air box, and it's probably not a whole lot better. If your (or my goal) was to get every last ounce of psi out of the system, I would make sure that the intake hoses were super smooth on the inside, and that the 180* turn right before the BTB was done with a custom designed tube that would keep the same cross-sectional area but flatten out a LOT for the turn and then expand back to a circular section just at the entrance to the TB. In a perfect world, I'd do the turning as far upstream of the TB as I could so that the unavoidable distortion created by the turn would have a chance to settle out, but unless I want to turn the intake flow on the cabin side of the firewall, that's not an option. :)

[Serpico]

Something like this might work, but it still might be a very tight fit....

http://intakehoses.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=I&Product_Code=90CB30&Category_Code=CHEW

[snakebit]

It's funny, before I actually even got my coldside kit, I was researching intakes and determined to fab an ultra smooth, super free flowing design. Then as I actually got into the installation, I saw how using the stock box would keep things simple and also look pretty good. Tom has never tested a setup like mine but he said something to the effect that you could probably run 20 ft. of that ribbed tubing and not have it show on the dyno.

Now, I am kind of wondering about the size of the stock panel filter, it's only about 43 sq. in. The cone in the kit has about double that filtration surface at 85 sq. in. I'm going to swap out the cone for the box (easy) and see what that does.

It's monsooning here this week, so it may be a few days before I can really test it.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

Not sure about 20 feet of it but you could run a lot before it became a problem. If memory serves, you are only at about 4 ft.

We have tried some relatively small filters with no adverse effect. Only difference is that you may need to clean it at each oil change.

[99mx5]

Something like this might work, but it still might be a very tight fit....

http://intakehoses.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=I&Product_Code=90CB30&Category_Code=CHEW


I already tried the cobra-head elbow, its not long enough for the MAF to clear the firewall shelf.

[snakebit]

Ok, I swapped out the stock air box for the cone and then swapped it back. As you might expect, the cone is louder and, w/out my cold air routing, the intake air temp. is higher. No discernable SOTP difference.

My total intake hose length from TB to box is about 6 ft. So, if you like things quiet, this is the way to go. I could hear the SC whine with the cone, but not with the stock box.

[Kyp J]

Would there be a way to use some kind of manometer to check the restriction from ambient to just before the throttle body on the different setups to see if it is important enough to chose one method over another? Of course someone would have to be able to analyze the resulting readings, I couldn't.

I would think it would have to be done under load either on a Dyno or while driving.

http://www.professionalequipment.com/xq/ASP/ProductID.798/id.6/subID.256/qx/default.htm

And someone would have to be really interested to pay $200 to find out.

[jwalton]

Something like this might work, but it still might be a very tight fit....

http://intakehoses.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=I&Product_Code=90CB30&Category_Code=CHEW

They're on the right track just without entirely realizing it. The flare out in the pictures is good, it just needs to be in the turning part of the tube, not the straight part. What you are seeing is referred to as a plenum dump. It works, but has, as they say, opportunities. :)

BTW, none of the stuff I've been referring to would probably ever be felt SOTP. Purely the realm of dyno bragging rights. There's a lot more effective stuff to do like shed weight from the car (or the driver) and especially the rotating stuff.

[Tom @ Fast Forward]

I was talking to Doug on the phone and he was telling me about the ScanGauge he has and saw in this post. I am always into new instrumentation but already had the Digimoto that connects to my laptop. Well, I decided to buy one and try it. The best $170 I have spent so far on instrumentation. This device is absolutely awesome. You can set it up to read 4 different items from the ECU. I set mine to watch the ECU go in and out of closed/open loop, ignition timing, TPS and charging volts. At the touch of a button, you can change any of those 4 items to be IAT, water temp, or a miriad of other things. It will even tell you what CEL code if you throw one and, at the touch of a button, reset the code. Not sure how I got along without it for so long. :)

I will still use the Digimoto from time to time as it allows for datalogging but, for day to day use, this device is awesome. Curious what your fuel economy is? Press a button and it will continuously display your instantaneous MPG.

http://scangauge.com/

Linear-Logic, Inc. 2222 S. Dobson Rd
Suite 800
Mesa, Arizona 85202
Phone:480-656-4089Fax:480-656-4418Toll Free: 888-433-5664



The coldside. I kinda like the black ribbed "theme" from the SC case to the long intake hose: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1061.jpg?t=1191134675

Clip to keep the hose away from the SC belt: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1069.jpg?t=1191134776

The cool air intake. The foam sits atop sheet metal plates which, along with the existing relay mount, seal the area around the driver's side headlight and draws air from the holes to the fender. On hindsight, I could have as easily made a similar intake on the passenger side using the cone filter and had a much shorter hose with less heat soak. Maybe I will do that someday, but Tom was of the opinion that the hose length would have a negligible effect on flow: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1062.jpg?t=1191134862

New gauges (boost and oil temp.), Knocklite and Scangauge. The priority was easy viewing while driving. The instrument hood was ideal for mounting the two gauge pods as there is plenty of space under there for the wires and vac line. I bought a pillar mount from FM but returned it after seeing how it obscured my left corner, (I have enough trouble nailing the apex w/out that handicap). Scangauge sits on velcro for quick removability: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c324/7stringviper/Cars/IMG_1064.jpg?t=1191134921