Water Injection

[fourwhls]

I would like to get a conversation going regarding water injection, specifically WI use with the cold side kit. Hopefully some of the experts amongst us will chime in and lend us some of your knowledge.

For those of you that are currently using WI...

What is your current set up?

A.) Pulley Size?
B.) Are you using eCool?
C.) Where are you injecting and using what nozzles at what pressure?
D.) Percentage of water/alcohol?
E.) What size tank and how much fluid mix are you using per tank of fuel?

What kit did you go with and would you recommend it to others?

I am currently looking at the following kits...
http://www.snowperformance.net
http://coolingmist.com
http://www.alcohol-injection.com
http://www.aquamist.co.uk/

Precautions or Problems?

Is there anything that the newbie would need to be aware of beforehand?




I have a couple specific questions pertaining to my setup/usage....

1.) If I utilize a WI system and tune the car with it in use (I am running a LINK), I theoretically should be able to add more timing without knock. Will I get to the point where if the WI system would fail, I would be looking at engine failure?

2.) My car is a track/autocross car, not a street car. I am assuming under hard cornering loads, I could cause starvation in the water tank. Is anybody using a baffled tank? What about a fluid level indicator?

[tann3r]

Some good reading about water/meth injection over at
http://www.miataturbo.net/forumdisplay.php?f=22

I've been looking into WI but havent pulled the trigger yet. Seems like a large tank (1-2 gallons) in the trunk is going to be needed if you're going to be tracking the car. There are low flluid level indicators available link (http://www.alcohol-injection.com/fluid-level-switch-10.html). I'd add refilling your WI tank to your pre-run routine, right after retorquing your lugs. Good point about baffling the tank, I had not considered it.

water:methanol ratios are always a debate. water has a can absorb more heat per volume, but methanol as a fuel provides a higher octane rating as well as a source of cooling. Depending on how available methanol is in your area will have an impact on your mixture. If you can get 1005 methanol, you can experiment and find what works best for you. as opposed to if you are limited to windshield washer fluid (30-50% methanol).

Keep us posted on your progress!

[atcmx]

I don't have a cold side, ecool and I am certainly no expert, but I do have WI, it works well and I feel some of the things I have found could be useful to others.

I have an 02 Ping Monster which is equipped with a M45 Hot side, DDR CAI, 62.5mm nose pulley, TDR Tensioner, PC-Pro and of course a Coolingmist WI system. Did I say Ping Monster? With no way to adjust timing, it has been a futile 2 plus years’ effort to be ping free. But, the WI took care of everything except the dreaded tip-in ping (which I am hoping Tom's timing card will cure).

On my 02, the PC Pro did not suppress all of the pinging as I had hoped, but WI did. It’s a simple, proven and cost effective solution.

Although I only pump out 8psi of boost on a real good day, even with its stock nose pulley, that M45 generates heat like a furnace from He!!. When I turn off the WI there is nothing but PING, no matter what the ambient temp is!!

I'm using an approximately 3gph nozzle @ 150psi. I initially injected into the dummy throttle body but finally settled on injecting at the output of the blower. For me, it seems to work (cool) better, but with the cold side, I don't think you have many choices.

As far as mixtures go, I've tried methanol/water ratios of 50/50, 40/60, 30/70 & 20/80 (20/80 is what most cold weather windshield washes appear to be). I noticed little or no difference and have ended up using windshield fluid exclusively. It gave the inside of my TB a little blue tint, but the piston heads are spotless!

I use about a gallon of mix per gas tank, which means I fill my 2 qt reservoir at least once between fill ups. In reality, I top it off every day or so, just to be sure.

But, the amount you use is controlled entirely by you. It is determined by the pressure used, size of nozzle, how often you go into boost and at what psi you start the WI. Take my 3gph @ 150 psi system. I have effectively 10 minutes worth of WI per 2 quart fill up before it will run out. I have the pump start psi set to about 3-4psi. That gets me over a hundred miles of average driving. When I experimented with a 1-1.5 psi start point, I'd burn my 2 qts in 40 miles or less. Kinda get the idea?

Yep, if you use the WI to offset/complement your other settings (af/timing/etc), I wouldn’t let it run out of water. I have an on/off switch for my pump with an idiot light to tell me when the pump is running mounted in the cockpit, but, I do NOT have a low fluid level light.....YET. I will soon, because a high pressure side connection broke on me this summer and I was pumping fluid straight out the hose. It used up my reservoir very quickly. With no fluid level light, I had no indication of the problem except for hearing the pre-detonation. Not a great thing to happen and I feel that the level indicator is a must.

Sorry if this is a little long and/or wordy. I really edited out half of what I started with. :online2long:

[fourwhls]

I put my hands on an AEM water/alcohol injection kit yesterday. One of the local shops had two kits on the shelf.

http://www.aempower.com/ViewCategory.aspx?CategoryID=120

I liked that it comes with a 1 gallon tank with a low fluid level sensor already installed. I also like that they include 3 nozzles, not that I will need the two larger ones. It may be small, but I also like the system and low level LEDs. It has the same Shureflo pump that comes in most the other kits. It has a progressive controller that is regulated by boost pressure.

They list retail at $522, but I have seen it for sale on various sites for sub $400. The local shop quoted me a chunk less than that and I didn't have to worry about shipping.

I am sold.

Till I put my hands on this kit, I was planning on the devil's own progressive kit, mainly for the price $280. But...It didn't come with a tank, low level sensor or LEDs. It also required a MAP sensor to control the progressive spray. By the time I bought the kit, tank, LL sensor, map, LEDs, etc, I was out of pocket much more than just buying the AEM kit.

I have not found anybody using this kit on a Miata, but there are two different guys running them locally on Subarus. Both have had no issues to date.

[snakebit]

IIRC, Tom has said that WI is not beneficial on a coldside w/ eCool, but I'll let him chime in on this.

[maggie]

I considered WI just to keep the pistons/combustion chamber clean. Maybe a toggle or pushbutton switch to periodically use in non-boost. Expensive add on just for that. Any thoughts?

[Toby Weir-Jones]

Cheaper to take a glass of water out to the garage, pull off a vacuum hose with the car running at idle, and dip the hose in the water intermittently to run water through the engine.

twj

[Gord96BRG]

I considered WI just to keep the pistons/combustion chamber clean. Maybe a toggle or pushbutton switch to periodically use in non-boost. Expensive add on just for that. Any thoughts?

You're right, it would be expensive just to use as an engine cleaner. Fortunately, WI can do much, much more - it's extremely effective at reducing knock tendencies and providing some in-cylinder cooling effects. There's a good reason why all the WRC rally cars ran WI (and it wasn't to keep the engine clean!)

There are some good technical articles explaining the benefits of WI (and how it works) on www.aquamist.co.uk

[lowboy72]

I have a 2002 with a coldside. I had the 105mm pulley but wanted more power. So once the timing card came out I order that and a 115mm pulley. I was a bit disappointed when after tuning I found out that I had to pull 8degrees top end to prevent ping. Now I was temporarily satisfied with the increase in torque but thought I could get more out of it if I could just reduce the intake temperature. So I bought the the AEM kit and installed it last weekend (injecting into the throttle body). Now I am running with only 3.5 degrees top end and I am running at a 12.2:1 AFR. I installed the 155cc nozzle and last week I did a run from VA to Long Island NY to NJ and back home (600 miles) on a single tank. I had the spray configured to start at 7psi and peak at 13psi.

I will say that after a spirited drive, even with the ecool, the SC was too hot to touch. With the water injection I can run it into the ground and the SC is cool to the touch, heating up only closer to pulley. I would not knock WI.

Pun intended. :biggrin:

[da_blue]

Interresting... please comment on your AEM WI (or other of course)...

[Mathrips]

What octane gas?
I would love to get the 115 pulley to work on my 99 but with 91 Cali gas.

[lowboy72]

We have 93 octane here in VA.